Car leasing virgin needs some hand-holding...

goldtop

I normally buy used cars, run them for about 3-4 years and then sell and repeat. I always buy with cash at about £5000-10000. No loans, no contracts, no small print to read.

But I'm thinking of leasing a new EV to run for two years. This would replace my Lexus hybrid (15yo RX400h). I spend about £300/month with the Lexus including depreciation, fuel, car tax, allowance for servicing/MOT/etc. And for about that I can get a new Hyundai Ioniq on lease. Not directly equivalent (step down in materials) but acceptable.

But I've never leased a car before. 9+23 deals look OK, paying for maintenance myself is OK because EVs = super cheap servicing. However, what about repair bills at the end of the contract? Gap insurance needed?

Anything else to think of before taking the plunge?

guitarmangler

Make sure you’re not going to go over the mileage, that’s the killer. I’m a cautious man (read boring) so I’d always get the gap insurance and tire and wheel insurance but separately , I just googled and shopped around. I saw a deal on hot deals uk on a full electric Hyundai lease and was almost tempted.

wibble

Yeah definitely get GAP insurance, you don't want to have to find the difference if it does get written off/stolen.

Some of the lease companies/brokers offer additional insurance products to cover damage/repairs that aren't covered under fair wear and tear. Although you have to weigh it up as to whether you can get minor dents/scuffs sorted yourself.

How many miles you doing?

You've probably come across these sites for finding good lease deals...

https://www.leaseloco.com/car-leasing/search

https://leasing.com/

PVO_Dave

Morning @goldtop welcome to the EV side, cheap motoring ahead!

Lease wise, repairs are only needed if the car is damaged outside of the acceptable guidelines, so things like scratches, badly curbed alloys etc.. there is some allowance for wear and tear. They generally outsource this to someone like the BVRLA - here's an example BMW guide: https://issuu.com/bfwsn67/docs/fwt_2013_issuu_bmw_group_financial_?mode=embed&viewMode=presentation&layout=http://skin.issuu.com/v/light/layout.xml&backgroundColor=FFFFFF&showFlipBtn=true

I'd recommend GAP insurance, ALA seem good and using MSE20 get's you 20% off the price  

If you haven't tried OctopusEV already, I'd highly recommend at least getting a quote from them. I used Cyril for my lease, he couldn't have been more helpful to be honest - happy to ping you his details if you want them? 

Also factor in your electricity provider, I've made an EV cost to charge calc for all EV's: https://www.witchalls.com/uk-ev-cost-to-charge-calculator/ having had a play with that with your new car, I think you're going to be hard pushed to beat Octopus Energy - If you decide to go with them, using a referral code get's you and the referrer £50 each (mine if you fancy it - https://share.octopus.energy/open-dodo-178) 

Insurance wise, worth checking out LV as they also include taking you to a charge point if you run out of electric - fortunately I've not needed it with them so far! - With insurance make sure you use something like TopCashBack, I got £30 back on my policy this year, which was a touch as LV were already the cheapest (sorry to be captain referral, but if you aren't with TCB, I can give you a link for more cash back there!). 

Also don't forget you are entitled to the government grant towards getting a home charger fitted  

chillidoggy

If you’re going to buy GAP insurance, have a shop around. I managed to get it a lot cheaper than what the dealer was offering.

Although they’re supposed to allow for FWAT, look out for damage charges which will be levied when you hand it back. Check what they consider acceptable, and what they don’t.

I wouldn’t bother with minor dings and stuff during the period of the lease, instead budget to have it all fixed just before you hand it back. Avoid kerbs, my mate got well stung by Mercedes Leasing for supposed damage to his wheels.

crunchman

If you do have scratches etc at the end of the lease, be careful what you do.  One of my friends had a lease car that he took to a local garage to get scratches fixed but the lease company were really picky about it and didn't like the fixes, and he ended up having to pay for them anyway, so he ended up paying twice.

They will get you at the end of the lease one way or the other.

At this point in time, I'd get another second hand petrol, and look at an electric car in a few years time.  I don't have off street parking, and our local council charges £500 to allow you to connect to their charging points in lamp posts.  If you have off street parking and solar panels on your house, the sums might be different, and a lease might make sense.

ToneControl

wibble said:

Yeah definitely get GAP insurance, you don't want to have to find the difference if it does get written off/stolen.

Some of the lease companies/brokers offer additional insurance products to cover damage/repairs that aren't covered under fair wear and tear. Although you have to weigh it up as to whether you can get minor dents/scuffs sorted yourself.

How many miles you doing?

You've probably come across these sites for finding good lease deals...

https://www.leaseloco.com/car-leasing/search

https://leasing.com/

the insurance products sold by the garage I went to were more than double what you could get independently, and had worse excess charges. 

EricTheWeary

I think at some point we will end up leasing an electric car. A basic Honda E would be £6.5k deposit then £280 per month. Seems an expensive way to drive around in a tiny car with crap range. However, running costs should be low ( I can book a charging point with my current employer so recharge it for nowt whilst in the office at the moment) and in reality there would still be a petrol or diesel vehicle on our drive for the foreseeable future for longer journeys. So the limit of 8,000 miles per year is not an issue. 

The bassist in my band always had a lease car and his last one had all sorts of scratches and minor dents. Quite a scruffy car for something under three years old. However, he was of the opinion it wasn’t worth sorting them and he’d just argue the toss about the price at the end of the lease. 

goldtop

Thanks - quite a few things to follow up there. 

For info: 8000-10000 miles a year. Excess mileage seems to be about 9p/mile, so an extra 1000 miles/pa would be £180 over two years. GAP insurance about £50-80, I think.

Usage pattern and car parking issues will require me to charge at work or at a charge station during the day, so no cheap off-peak electricity There are, at least, workplace charger subsidies available.

Got an online quote from Octopus for the Ioniq and it's about 25% more expensive than via Leaseloco. Will dig deeper on the actual deal...

goldtop

EricTheWeary said:

I think at some point we will end up leasing an electric car. A basic Honda E would be £6.5k deposit then £280 per month. Seems an expensive way to drive around in a tiny car with crap range. However, running costs should be low ( I can book a charging point with my current employer so recharge it for nowt whilst in the office at the moment) and in reality there would still be a petrol or diesel vehicle on our drive for the foreseeable future for longer journeys. So the limit of 8,000 miles per year is not an issue. 

The bassist in my band always had a lease car and his last one had all sorts of scratches and minor dents. Quite a scruffy car for something under three years old. However, he was of the opinion it wasn’t worth sorting them and he’d just argue the toss about the price at the end of the lease. 

With the Honda E (love it), you'd paying for the pioneering of so much stuff in a fashion statement. The Ioniq is more (boringly) straightforward but has excellent efficiency and OK range. The Ioniq 5 that's about to come out is a completely different animal with 300 mile range and 0-60 in 5.2s. But it will be spendy to lease at first.

@crunchman - I had heard of some end-of-lease inspections involving paint-depth gauges for spotting bad 3rd party repairs.

EricTheWeary

I looked at a couple of shoot outs or the 'lower' priced EVs. Much of a muchness in some ways, the Honda I liked as it's a purpose built knows it's an electric car kinda design, the Corsa and the Mini more just jazzed up versions of the petrol versions. Not something I'll be doing for a while yet so I'll see what's on the market when I get that far. 
 There is a market in putting Tesla engines in classic cars. I watched a YouTube video of someone doing this with a bashed up old Beetle. In reality not that much of the original car remains but with a Tesla engine in it such a small car goes like shit off a shovel. Probably not practical as a family car but it looked fun. Not cheap and not on a lease, obvs. 

goldtop

Yup. This market is now moving pretty quickly, which is why I am tempted to lease an EV for a couple of years. Otherwise I'd buy the slightly older Ioniq at about £13-15000. I still might if I can't get comfy with the thought of leasing.

We all know that Apple will have an EV before long, and that will develop the market. (Although I suspect Apple, being Apple, will announce that their car does not have a steering wheel.)

skunkwerx

goldtop said:

EricTheWeary said:

I think at some point we will end up leasing an electric car. A basic Honda E would be £6.5k deposit then £280 per month. Seems an expensive way to drive around in a tiny car with crap range. However, running costs should be low ( I can book a charging point with my current employer so recharge it for nowt whilst in the office at the moment) and in reality there would still be a petrol or diesel vehicle on our drive for the foreseeable future for longer journeys. So the limit of 8,000 miles per year is not an issue. 

The bassist in my band always had a lease car and his last one had all sorts of scratches and minor dents. Quite a scruffy car for something under three years old. However, he was of the opinion it wasn’t worth sorting them and he’d just argue the toss about the price at the end of the lease. 

With the Honda E (love it), you'd paying for the pioneering of so much stuff in a fashion statement. The Ioniq is more (boringly) straightforward but has excellent efficiency and OK range. The Ioniq 5 that's about to come out is a completely different animal with 300 mile range and 0-60 in 5.2s. But it will be spendy to lease at first.

@crunchman - I had heard of some end-of-lease inspections involving paint-depth gauges for spotting bad 3rd party repairs.

Theyre asshats with that. 

Its different but I took my old Focus to webuyanycar for a quote, the kid came out with his paint depth gauge and went around it, said he needs to knock £1000 off the quote because its been resprayed. 

It had not since I owned it. Before I owned it, it had been in the family since new. 

I questioned his logic, why would I respray an 8 year old focus in its entirety in the same manufacturer colour, yet not bother refurbing the wheels which had some kerb marks (and would have cost chips in comparison to a full respray). 

I asked to see the Fords paint depth information for the mk2.5 focus in vision blue so as I could validate where he was basing his figures on, or asked him to show me any overspray or any telltale signs it had been resprayed. He couldnt give me anything. 

EricTheWeary

I’ve had Octopus as my energy supplier at home for the 
last couple of years, it’s through a group bargaining scheme. They’ve lost out this year to Shell, same promise on renewable electricity. Two emails and I save £50 or whatever so I’m going to do it. Anyway, Shell Energy obviously trying to be competitive so maybe one for the list. 

goldtop

Annoyingly, for us the home charging with off-peak electricity isn't an option without converting the front garden into off-road parking, which would likely require a lamp-post being moved in addition to the dropped-kerb costs.

BlueStrat

As some of the others have said, be prepared to get stung at the end of your lease. I was stung for my Merc (direct from Merc) for the tiniest of scratches on a door handle and the teensiest of scuffs on an alloy even though it was way under the contracted mileage and they’d more than made up for the tiny scuff with the profit made on the sale price on the lower mileage car in almost mint condition. 

That said, still better to pay a bit more for a higher mileage than to get stung at the end of goings 1000s over. 

6,500 up front on a crappy honda e seems a piss take tho?

goldtop

Have seen that some of the leasing companies will happily sell (another) insurance policy for minor scrapes and scuffs.

Iamnobody

I’m not sure if all these stories of they’ll get you in the end etc are first hand truths or secondhand knowledge passed round and embellished over the years.

The assessment of lease vehicles is subject to fair wear and tear and very prescriptive in terms of what is considered acceptable. The company should advise the cost as well. As an example VWs ‘penalty’ for a scuffed alloy is cheaper than getting it refurbished.

The condition report is typically carried out by the auction house (BCA in my experience of two different brands of vehicle) they are quite strict. So...if you think you have been unfairly assessed, you can make representations and I’ve negotiated on areas highlighted as falling below standard, and had the lease co. agree they were actually within acceptable tolerance.

If you look after the car properly, get any repairs outside the FW&T properly sorted I don’t think the potential costs on returning the vehicle are anything to get too concerned about.

I hope I ever have to own a car again. To quote someone else...

If it drives, flies, floats or fucks - lease it.

goldtop

Iamnobody said:

If you look after the car properly, get any repairs outside the FW&T properly sorted I don’t think the potential costs on returning the vehicle are anything to get too concerned about.

That's the thing. After running older cars and running them for 4 years at a time, the odd car-park ding and small parking scuff is something that I just lived with. FW&T I would call it and when I sold the car on, no-one was bothered.

With a brand-new car under lease, I'm in a different situation, so that's why I've got to think it through. The above experiences are useful to get a feel for the 'gotchas'.

> If it drives, flies, floats or fucks - lease it.

Well, not really! Leasing a new car, and never owning it simply means that I'll just be voluntarily taking on the worst of the depreciation myself, just to have the latest thing. That's not sensible (nor sustainable, etc). The last few cars I have owned:

• Car 1 bought for £1000 ran for 4 years, sold for £1000
• Car 2 £22000 five years ago and now worth £45000
• Car 3 £23000 five years ago and now worth £35000
• Car 4 £6400 two years ago and still worth £6000

YMMV.

(I'd still rather buy a 4yo car outright, but I think EV tech is moving too quickly.)

goldtop

OMG. Years ago, there was a thread on Pistonheads about a car leasing company run by a crazy woman. I just found it again.

Put on your sunglasses, get the Paracetomol ready and prepare for the trip that is Lings: https://www.lingscars.com/

skunkwerx

I’ve just added up my annual baseline cost of motoring and its fucking mental. 

£3400 or something annual. 

Works out at £10 per day!

That included: 
Cost of loan per year.
Annual insurance.
Annual breakdown cover.
Annual warranty cover. 

Mot
1 major service at a main dealers. 

Tax. £20 annual so its negligible lol. 

Didnt include fuel, monthly parking when I work of £1200 per year, or wear and tear/repair if not covered by warranty. 

Its a nice car to me, but its not a premium brand, its a Diesel Megane Coupe. 5 years old. 

The upside is my annual mileage has now dropped to 3000 per year and I havent refuelled yet this year... or had to pay for parking.

+ I guess cars are included in my hobbies so, generally if I can afford it I’ll spend what has to be spent to keep things well oiled.