PSA: 2009 CS Braz board Tele at Peach, a mere £5k!

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fretfinderfretfinder Frets: 4978
edited March 2021 in Guitar
Price seems a little toppy imho. o

If anyone finds £4,999 too eye-watering they can have mine, which is from the same run and looks exactly the same as the Peach one, for a mere £4,750! 
250+ positive trading feedbacks: http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/57830/
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  • JerkMoansJerkMoans Frets: 8775
    Price seems a little toppy imho. o

    If anyone finds £4,999 too eye-watering they can have mine, which is from the same run and looks exactly the same as the Peach one, for a mere £4,750! 
    It's been said before, but prices have gone absolutely freaking nuts over the last 12 months.  IMHO this cannot be sustainable.

    Well I'm not buying, anyway.  So ner. :tongue: 
    Inactivist Lefty Lawyer
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  • danishbacondanishbacon Frets: 2694
    Would a guitar like that come with CITES documentation?
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  • WhitecatWhitecat Frets: 5378
    Would a guitar like that come with CITES documentation?
    Nope which is why the run got recalled by Fender in the first place - they were made aware that even offering them for sale is illegal in the UK. 
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  • slackerslacker Frets: 2216
    Missing the issue here. Putting any kind of rosewood on a telecaster should be illegal.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413
    Whitecat said:
    Would a guitar like that come with CITES documentation?
    Nope which is why the run got recalled by Fender in the first place - they were made aware that even offering them for sale is illegal in the UK. 

    Hopefully now we have left the EU, we can make our rules a bit more sensible on BRW.  I used to own a 1990 PRS Ltd Edition with a BRW board.  BRW didn't go on the CITES list until 1992.  It's ridiculous that that guitar would now be affected by all these rules.  If I still owned it, I couldn't sell it outside of the UK, and I'm not entirely certain of the legality of selling within the UK.

    The one in the OP is slightly different as it was manufactured after 1992, but as long as there is paperwork that the wood was cut before 1992, it ought to be legal to sell it, but my understanding is that it's not at the moment.
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  • SassafrasSassafras Frets: 30273
    Before buying make sure your playing comes up to a standard that meets our approval.
    Can't have beginners buying expensive gear.
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  • WhitecatWhitecat Frets: 5378
    In practise they obviously don’t enforce it much. Think of all the vintage guitars with BRW that get sold through virtually every specialist retailer in the country every week - by the letter of the law, most of those sales or even offers to sell are illegal. Is DEFRA going after Vintage & Rare or ATB or any of the other big names in vintage guitar sales? Obviously not. Fender was following the letter of law (ironic considering their more recent history with authorities here) in recalling unsold ones and re-necking them, so I wonder if there was someone official sniffing around at the time, but in general most people are not going to have issues with an internal private sale. 
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  • Fishboy7Fishboy7 Frets: 2178
    edited March 2021
    I had one and sold for £1500 about 6 years ago.

    Peach normally price things pretty sensibly, so this one does seem a bit odd.  
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  • mgawmgaw Frets: 5239
    its a gravy train, these guys are in the business of making money, its a diminishing market  in some respects so lets hike the prices ....
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413
    Whitecat said:
    In practise they obviously don’t enforce it much. Think of all the vintage guitars with BRW that get sold through virtually every specialist retailer in the country every week - by the letter of the law, most of those sales or even offers to sell are illegal. Is DEFRA going after Vintage & Rare or ATB or any of the other big names in vintage guitar sales? Obviously not. Fender was following the letter of law (ironic considering their more recent history with authorities here) in recalling unsold ones and re-necking them, so I wonder if there was someone official sniffing around at the time, but in general most people are not going to have issues with an internal private sale. 

    True, but if were Peach I wouldn't be advertising that on my website with Brazilian Rosewood in the title.
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  • SassafrasSassafras Frets: 30273
    Buy 2 and you could have a couple of Brazilians hanging off your neck.
    Phnar, phnar!
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  • GuyRGuyR Frets: 1323
    JerkMoans said:
    Price seems a little toppy imho. o

    If anyone finds £4,999 too eye-watering they can have mine, which is from the same run and looks exactly the same as the Peach one, for a mere £4,750! 
    It's been said before, but prices have gone absolutely freaking nuts over the last 12 months.  IMHO this cannot be sustainable.

    If sustainable was intentional, that is post of the week
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  • Prices have skyrocketed as people are paying. The same is true on the used market - I suspect, post-covid, things will calm down a bit as fewer people will have time/space for their new hobbies (I even struggled to get Rollerblades!).

    I don't blame Fender for capitalising on this. 
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  • JackobeanJackobean Frets: 667
    Two factors at play here:

    Peach’s used prices have always been mental.
    Its on consignment for one of John’s mates.

    Another dealer would probably price it in the region of 3.5-4k.
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14034
    tFB Trader
    @whitecat has already covered most of the factors 

    I'm at home now so don't have all my info with me - But they did 2 runs - Both same but slightly different - A 3rd run, or a larger quantity of the 2nd run was in the pipeline and these were all recalled by Fender USA - Then sent out at a later date with new/replacement necks with India boards

    Whilst CITES info came into force in the early 90's, everyone inc Fender, Gibson, PRS, Collings, Martin and probably others, produced limited runs of guitars that became imported into EU - Whilst legally the CITES law existed, in reality no one bothered, certainly the USA wildlife and fisheries and appropriate EU bodies

    You can't retrospectively acquire any CITES paperwork as DEFRA require the original info from the suppliers and that was never obtained in the 1st place 

    So the rules are in place, but most ignore, that is dealers and customers, be it via FB, Reverb etc - It is not illegal to own such a guitar, but technically it is illegal to buy and sell, but as I said most ignore

    As an overview I can understand if a law was brought into place, from 2022 that stated no more new guitars with Brz etc - Be it with or without CITES - But think silly try to now enforce such rules that were at best, very relaxed previously - So just allow some form of amnesty, worldwide, and just get on with it

    I dare say the large majority of potential customers are non the wiser about any such rules and I'm not 100% sure of them all
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14034
    tFB Trader
    The negative on the Fender Brz special run is that they don't have any additional documentation to state what they are - You can work it out with appropriate info, but would have been so simple to add Brz or something similar on the COA - The only mention I can remember is a sticky label on the original factory cardboard box

    I've not sold one for a while and can't recall if it states anything on a Traveller sheet, if you can get one - Peach sold new ones, as I did and others did, so they will know that it is the correct model
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  • chris78chris78 Frets: 9166
    I wouldn't agree with the earlier comment that Peach's used prices are mental. I think they're consistent with coda etc and they certainly don't take the pee.

    I wouldn't even begin to pay £5k for a used team built guitar. Peach know their clients and their market so they must have customers who will, but for a different type of rosewood compared to standard Indian that has zero impact on tone, anyone buying that must have taken leave of their senses.
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  • danishbacondanishbacon Frets: 2694
    @whitecat has already covered most of the factors 

    I'm at home now so don't have all my info with me - But they did 2 runs - Both same but slightly different - A 3rd run, or a larger quantity of the 2nd run was in the pipeline and these were all recalled by Fender USA - Then sent out at a later date with new/replacement necks with India boards

    Whilst CITES info came into force in the early 90's, everyone inc Fender, Gibson, PRS, Collings, Martin and probably others, produced limited runs of guitars that became imported into EU - Whilst legally the CITES law existed, in reality no one bothered, certainly the USA wildlife and fisheries and appropriate EU bodies

    You can't retrospectively acquire any CITES paperwork as DEFRA require the original info from the suppliers and that was never obtained in the 1st place 

    So the rules are in place, but most ignore, that is dealers and customers, be it via FB, Reverb etc - It is not illegal to own such a guitar, but technically it is illegal to buy and sell, but as I said most ignore

    As an overview I can understand if a law was brought into place, from 2022 that stated no more new guitars with Brz etc - Be it with or without CITES - But think silly try to now enforce such rules that were at best, very relaxed previously - So just allow some form of amnesty, worldwide, and just get on with it

    I dare say the large majority of potential customers are non the wiser about any such rules and I'm not 100% sure of them all
    Thanks Mark, insightful as always. It would be good to have an amnesty programme of some kind in place. 
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14034
    tFB Trader
    crunchman said:
    Whitecat said:
    Would a guitar like that come with CITES documentation?
    Nope which is why the run got recalled by Fender in the first place - they were made aware that even offering them for sale is illegal in the UK. 

    Hopefully now we have left the EU, we can make our rules a bit more sensible on BRW.  I used to own a 1990 PRS Ltd Edition with a BRW board.  BRW didn't go on the CITES list until 1992.  It's ridiculous that that guitar would now be affected by all these rules.  If I still owned it, I couldn't sell it outside of the UK, and I'm not entirely certain of the legality of selling within the UK.

    The one in the OP is slightly different as it was manufactured after 1992, but as long as there is paperwork that the wood was cut before 1992, it ought to be legal to sell it, but my understanding is that it's not at the moment.
    Hard to prove though - Yes you can have a suppliers invoice from the timber yard with appropriate info - But how do you say which piece of wood relates to that paperwork

    Some CITES is crazy - ie - If you have say a family heirloom of an old hairbrush with a tortoiseshell or ivory handle, that is say over 100 years old, so antique, then it is legal and no paperwork required - So now you are thinking of having a custom built guitar spec'd from a UK luthier and think it would be nice to use grandma's hairbrush for the inlays - That ivory/tortoiseshell now becomes illegal, once it is 'broken' down 

    As I mentioned earlier, IMO, the easy option is to ban it, regardless, on any new product, say after 2022 - But a full amnesty prior to this on existing products - Then give DEFRA the power to enforce current legislation as against trying to find if you have the correct paperwork for a 63 Gibson SG Junior 

    I think old pianos with ivory keys have been given some amnesty now up to a certain date - But many violin bows will have some ivory on them and have been like this for many many years - I certainly do not agree with any form of poaching of any animal - But on an old bow, the damage has been done, so why try to ban it on a bow that is 50/100 years old etc  - I hear stories of such issues having impact with professional touring musos as and when they go thru' customs

    So let DEFRA and the worlds appropriate authorities get on with going after todays poachers - As against spending time, that they are short off, sorting out CITES applications for a 63 SG or a 92 PRS

    I recall some figure head in our trade, telling me, a number of years ago, that he went to an appropriate CITES meeting and the 'authorities' openly admitted they had no idea a used market existed for musical instruments - So yes I can see a point of a ban today and let it be fully endorsed by all - But get on with all that came before, be it prior to 92, or when laws were very relaxed
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  • IsambardKentuckyIsambardKentucky Frets: 154
    edited March 2021
    Seen two telecasters from this run sell for around half that price in 2020 on ebay/reverb.
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