Roland 'All notes off' CC#123 fix ?

Emp_Fab

I've just discovered the infamous Roland 'All Notes Off' bug - that sends CC #123 on release of the last key - which instantly chops the tails off any pad sounds or reverb if you're using it as a MIDI controller to drive other kit.  I can't see a way to change this on my D50 and I can't see a way to ignore that CC on my iPad synths.  Is it possible to stick a bit of hardware between the two to filter out CC#123 ?

octatonic

What DAW are you using?

You could do this in Logic's environment fairly easily.

Emp_Fab

No DAW - D50 -> iPad !

Funkfingers

The MIDI all notes off condition could arise numerous times within the duration of a song. 

The CC message should not prevent programmed synthesizer filters and amplifier stages running according to their programmed envelopes. Similarly, built-in reverb effects should sound for their entire "tail" time parameter setting.

How the D-50 and tablet virtual instrument interact depends upon how they are connected. For the keyboard to trigger the tablet requires a one-way MIDI cable. For the tablet to remotely play the D-50 requires a second MIDI cable. You may have created a loop. 

The quick solution is the Local Off switch. Roland usually hides this function under the System or MIDI menus. 

poopot

I’m guessing the inbuilt synth sounds are ok?
it’s just when you use it as a controller for external midi synths?

Go into your daw and turn off cc#123 and it will work...

Emp_Fab

It's a known issue - https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=429740

Apparently some softsynth designers treat CC #123 (all notes off) as CC #120 (all SOUNDS off) - which is exactly what is happening.  

poopot

Emp_Fab said:

It's a known issue - https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=429740

Apparently some softsynth designers treat CC #123 (all notes off) as CC #120 (all SOUNDS off) - which is exactly what is happening.  

Yes... so set your daw to ignore that and it’s sorted!!!!

WiresDreamDisasters

Emp_Fab said:

It's a known issue - https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=429740

Apparently some softsynth designers treat CC #123 (all notes off) as CC #120 (all SOUNDS off) - which is exactly what is happening.  

That thread says:

The D-70, I think, was the last synth that did the all notes off nonsense. But it allowed to turn off the 'feature' if you wished.

Emp_Fab

I'm not using a DAW - I'm just playing for fun.  I suppose I could run it through a PC to drop that data on its way to the iPad, but if I was playing with it live, that's not a viable option.  The thread refers to a D70 but I've got D50s and I can't see anywhere in the settings to disable that, so unless it was a D70 option only, I'm still stuffed.

I'll check with the synth writers if there's any way to ignore that CC data.

poopot

Get logic...

Emp_Fab

That will not help if I'm connecting a D50 straight to an iPad.

poopot

Buy a Mac with logic on it.

Funkfingers

Emp_Fab said:

Apparently some softsynth designers treat CC #123 (all notes off) as CC #120 (all SOUNDS off) - which is exactly what is happening.  

The solution is to edit the way that the virtual instruments respond to incoming MIDI CC messages. If the soft synths are mapping CC #123 to #120, you need to reset this (in the tablet) to the correct destination and get each softsynth to remember your preferred setting.

This will involve cracking the manual(s) or Help files of each virtual instrument.

poopot

Or... get a new synth...

it’s a bit of a case of square peg round hole...

you’re using old tech (with a known bug) into something that wasn’t invented when the tech was made (an iPad was something the opticians gave you when that synth was made)...

if you just want to use the software synths buy a cheap midi controller...

Funkfingers

poopot said:

you’re using old tech (with a known bug) into something that wasn’t invented when the tech was made.

The Roland D-50 is behaving in accordance with MIDI conventions.

The "bug" lies entirely within the virtual instrument(s) hosted by the tablet.

horse

I'd love a d-50 - I remember when they launched and being allowed to mess around on one as a youth in the synth room of Carlsbro in Leicester. Trying to get in that synth room was like an earlier version of trying to get served beer underage - sometimes it came off, other times not

Emp_Fab

They're not that expensive now.  I think I paid £300 - odd for mine.

I've discovered a midi app that can sit on the iPad between the physical midi input and the input to a soft synth that should be able to filter out the CC data as needed.  It's a shame they didn't port the amazing MIDI-OX to IOS.  Fabulous utility.

poopot

Emp my little pickle... something to solve your all notes off issue if you like...

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/201209/fs-mac-mini-late-2012-a1347-i5-3210m-2-5ghz-4gb-500gb-hd-150

not affiliated in any way but saw it and thought of you... whilst I’m in the bath as well

Your neck of the woods as well I think!...