What coffee machine (again)

joneve

So, the inlaws fancy a spanking new coffee machine when they move house. They’re looking at two Sage barista style machines that are £549 and £699 respectively (see below) 

https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/household-appliances/small-kitchen-appliances/coffee-machines-and-accessories/coffee-machines/sage-barista-express-bes875uk-bean-to-cup-coffee-machine-silver-10174955-pdt.html?store=2285&&istCompanyId=bec25c7e-cbcd-460d-81d5-a25372d2e3d7&istFeedId=2928af81-b29b-476c-a180-ac5de265a98e&istItemId=wwmitaatt&istBid=t&srcid=198&cmpid=ppc~gg~2043%20(Shopping%20Ads)%20SDA%20SKA%20Coffee%20Machines%20-%20Generic~All%20Coffee%20Machines~Exact&mctag=gg_goog_7904&kwid=GOOGLE&device=m&ds_kids=92700062090801928&tgtid=2043%20(Shopping%20Ads)%20SDA%20SKA%20Coffee%20Machines%20-%20Generic&gclid=CjwKCAiAhbeCBhBcEiwAkv2cY4-bLsLT64JJBPyOrUkFrF_-r4aAvXOxREHLHzxqIukuYqMK1ABkjBoC65MQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

https://www.johnlewis.com/sage-ses878-the-barista-pro-coffee-machine/silver/p4081414?sku=238004068&s_ppc=2dx92700055554107474&tmad=c&tmcampid=2&gclid=CjwKCAiAhbeCBhBcEiwAkv2cY1RI1uxOUnoTE-bnAanZQ70Kczi32Vt-23FGNg8Xg30TKBl1I2QSARoCoi0QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Anyone got any real life experience of these? Or know if they’d be any good? Orrr recommend any other machines? Ease of use would be a plus point. 

BigMonka

I got the Barista Express a few weeks ago, and I love it! Even a bad coffee from it is better than any coffee I've previously made at home with cheaper espresso machines - it definitely does coffee shop quality at home.

A lot of people would tell you to get a separate grinder and machine as you may want to upgrade them separately, but I think that only matters if you intend to go down the espresso rabbit hole - I like that its a fairly compact all-in-one unit.

Ease of use is very subjective though. It takes a bit of effort to work out the best grind setting for each bag of beans you buy. Then you need to learn how to get the correct dose and tamp it. None of which is hard, but it's not a press-a-button and get a coffee out kind of machine. It probably takes about 10min to make a cup of coffee with letting the machine heat up, grind, tamp, steam milk, pull the shot, pour the milk. Which is fine if you don't mind it being a bit of a hobby.

BigMonka

Just to add that its worth keeping an eye out on HotUKDeals for Sage discounts, I got 25% off mine direct from Sage which made it cheaper than an espresso machine (like the excellent Sage Bambino) and a separate fairly rubbish grinder. 

joneve

BigMonka said:

I got the Barista Express a few weeks ago, and I love it! Even a bad coffee from it is better than any coffee I've previously made at home with cheaper espresso machines - it definitely does coffee shop quality at home.

A lot of people would tell you to get a separate grinder and machine as you may want to upgrade them separately, but I think that only matters if you intend to go down the espresso rabbit hole - I like that its a fairly compact all-in-one unit.

Ease of use is very subjective though. It takes a bit of effort to work out the best grind setting for each bag of beans you buy. Then you need to learn how to get the correct dose and tamp it. None of which is hard, but it's not a press-a-button and get a coffee out kind of machine. It probably takes about 10min to make a cup of coffee with letting the machine heat up, grind, tamp, steam milk, pull the shot, pour the milk. Which is fine if you don't mind it being a bit of a hobby.

BigMonka said:

Just to add that its worth keeping an eye out on HotUKDeals for Sage discounts, I got 25% off mine direct from Sage which made it cheaper than an espresso machine (like the excellent Sage Bambino) and a separate fairly rubbish grinder. 

Very useful! thank you! My in-laws are approaching their early 60's and not stupid, so I think the express would be fine, if a little fiddly initially. 

they always buy the same coffee so I think once it's set, they won't need to faff about with the settings too much. 

joneve

Oh, also, is it a one-cup-at-a-time job? 

BigMonka

joneve said:

Oh, also, is it a one-cup-at-a-time job? 

I put two cups under and then do a double shot which splits it between the two - so that works fine if you only want each drink to be based on a single espresso shot (then add hot water and/or milk if required).

I honestly love this machine though, it makes great coffee and it feels like really nice high quality piece of kit to use. 

joneve

BigMonka said:

joneve said:

Oh, also, is it a one-cup-at-a-time job? 

I put two cups under and then do a double shot which splits it between the two - so that works fine if you only want each drink to be based on a single espresso shot (then add hot water and/or milk if required).

I honestly love this machine though, it makes great coffee and it feels like really nice high quality piece of kit to use. 

cheers chap! very helpful. I've basically said, if they don't mind the extra effort of making a barista coffee (as opposed to the filter pot machine they have now) then the express is probably fine and the Pro is probably a bit overkill 

BigMonka

You may already know, but its worth mentioning that the company called "Sage" in the UK is called "Breville" everywhere else in the world - so there are loads of Youtube videos for the same model with a different brand badge.

(Also note the the UK company "Breville" is now unrelated to the Breville/Sage company - confusing or what!)

joneve

BigMonka said:

You may already know, but its worth mentioning that the company called "Sage" in the UK is called "Breville" everywhere else in the world - so there are loads of Youtube videos for the same model with a different brand badge.

(Also note the the UK company "Breville" is now unrelated to the Breville/Sage company - confusing or what!)

I didn't know this, and this is confusing AF! 

ThePrettyDamned

Standard "all espresso machines are hassle and need care, including disassembly, cleaning, descaling and bean to cup types have even more to go wrong including a usually poor quality grinder" response from me.

Then my standard "there are loads of ways of making truly incredible coffee that does not involve 5-9 bars of pressure and a noisy pump".

The machines above are fine, with the caveats that the built in grinder is, at best, quite poor, and falls out of alignment sometimes, leading to gushy shots because you can't grind fine enough. Sage will repair under warranty, though, and they do stand by the warranty.

Baskets and portafilter, I think, are non-standard size so it's hard to get a premium version. Again, not really target market.

I highly recommend the coffeeforums site. Loads on there have/have had these machines and you'll get a feel for the pros and cons. I sold my espresso machine and replaced it with a completely 100 percent manual espresso because I get better results, cheaper, quieter, with less hassle and less countertop space than I did with an Italian-made machine that I modified... 

https://www.cafelatstore.com/products/robotpowdercoating

joneve

So just to Necrobump this (as it’s still all the rage)..turns out my wife was lying and her parents don’t want a new machine. She was trying to get me to pick one so my family could all chip in and get one for my birthday. 

So I’m now the proud owner of a Sage Barista Express. I’m still working out how best to adjust the settings for the perfect cup, but the 3 I’ve had out of it already are better than most coffees. 

Absolutely incredible bit of kit

goldtop

ThePrettyDamned said:

Standard "all espresso machines are hassle and need care, including disassembly, cleaning, descaling and bean to cup types have even more to go wrong including a usually poor quality grinder" response from me.

And to continue to necro-bumping with a micro-tangent...

Is there a generic approach to descaling? We use the Delonghi acidic liquid stuff at the moment, but can't help wondering if there's an alternative or even homebrew recipe.

RaymondLin

goldtop said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Standard "all espresso machines are hassle and need care, including disassembly, cleaning, descaling and bean to cup types have even more to go wrong including a usually poor quality grinder" response from me.

And to continue to necro-bumping with a micro-tangent...

Is there a generic approach to descaling? We use the Delonghi acidic liquid stuff at the moment, but can't help wondering if there's an alternative or even homebrew recipe.

I use this.

https://www.hasbean.co.uk/collections/cleaning-products/products/urnex-cafiza

newi123

We have had the Barista express for a couple of years now. Bought from Amazon. Gets used alot, mainly just for black americanos, and love it to bits. it does make great frothy coffee too tho. One of the best things we`ve ever bought.

It hasn`t been faultless - it`s had two problems and each time they sent someone out and then sent us a replacement machine. So happy to recommend their customer service too.

One of the engineers had a detailed take on coffee beans with my wife, and all beans are not equal and they need to be fresh! He recommended Rave Coffee, and we now get a regular weekly delivery of fresh beans every Wednesday. Genuinely much, much nicer than the ones bought in the local supermarket that have probably sat for ages.

RaymondLin

newi123 said:

We have had the Barista express for a couple of years now. Bought from Amazon. Gets used alot, mainly just for black americanos, and love it to bits. it does make great frothy coffee too tho. One of the best things we`ve ever bought.

It hasn`t been faultless - it`s had two problems and each time they sent someone out and then sent us a replacement machine. So happy to recommend their customer service too.

One of the engineers had a detailed take on coffee beans with my wife, and all beans are not equal and they need to be fresh! He recommended Rave Coffee, and we now get a regular weekly delivery of fresh beans every Wednesday. Genuinely much, much nicer than the ones bought in the local supermarket that have probably sat for ages.

Online roasters, good roasters, will roast beans after your order is placed.  Generally, it is better to wait 48hrs after the roast date before making a cup at the earliest, to let some of the gas released, hence that valve on the packet.

joneve

newi123 said:

We have had the Barista express for a couple of years now. Bought from Amazon. Gets used alot, mainly just for black americanos, and love it to bits. it does make great frothy coffee too tho. One of the best things we`ve ever bought.

It hasn`t been faultless - it`s had two problems and each time they sent someone out and then sent us a replacement machine. So happy to recommend their customer service too.

One of the engineers had a detailed take on coffee beans with my wife, and all beans are not equal and they need to be fresh! He recommended Rave Coffee, and we now get a regular weekly delivery of fresh beans every Wednesday. Genuinely much, much nicer than the ones bought in the local supermarket that have probably sat for ages.

that's the second person I've heard mention Rave, so I'll definitely give them a go when I've got through the Beans I have now. 

Good to hear their customer support is good as we bought our machine from Amazon too (apparently!) 

RaymondLin

joneve said:

newi123 said:

We have had the Barista express for a couple of years now. Bought from Amazon. Gets used alot, mainly just for black americanos, and love it to bits. it does make great frothy coffee too tho. One of the best things we`ve ever bought.

It hasn`t been faultless - it`s had two problems and each time they sent someone out and then sent us a replacement machine. So happy to recommend their customer service too.

One of the engineers had a detailed take on coffee beans with my wife, and all beans are not equal and they need to be fresh! He recommended Rave Coffee, and we now get a regular weekly delivery of fresh beans every Wednesday. Genuinely much, much nicer than the ones bought in the local supermarket that have probably sat for ages.

that's the second person I've heard mention Rave, so I'll definitely give them a go when I've got through the Beans I have now. 

Good to hear their customer support is good as we bought our machine from Amazon too (apparently!) 

I know the head roaster at Rave, he was the brother of the groom at a wedding I photographed.

They often have codes if you sign up to their newsletter, like on Mother's Day etc.

ThePrettyDamned

goldtop said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Standard "all espresso machines are hassle and need care, including disassembly, cleaning, descaling and bean to cup types have even more to go wrong including a usually poor quality grinder" response from me.

And to continue to necro-bumping with a micro-tangent...

Is there a generic approach to descaling? We use the Delonghi acidic liquid stuff at the moment, but can't help wondering if there's an alternative or even homebrew recipe.

I used citric acid, cheap and effective.

In the dark days of owning an espresso machine! Couldn't pay me to use one now. 

goldtop

ThePrettyDamned said:

goldtop said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Standard "all espresso machines are hassle and need care, including disassembly, cleaning, descaling and bean to cup types have even more to go wrong including a usually poor quality grinder" response from me.

And to continue to necro-bumping with a micro-tangent...

Is there a generic approach to descaling? We use the Delonghi acidic liquid stuff at the moment, but can't help wondering if there's an alternative or even homebrew recipe.

I used citric acid, cheap and effective.

In the dark days of owning an espresso machine! Couldn't pay me to use one now. 

I know, we're still slumming it!

I'll give that and the stuff Raymond mentioned a go.

thermionic

Be careful if you have a heat exchanger machine, they shouldn’t be descaled. Most domestic machines aren’t though, until you get into expensive Italian makes.

I always use filtered water now to avoid problems but I recently stripped down the E61 group head on mine after having owned it for two years and it was pleasingly free of any substantial deposits.

strumjoughlamps

Rave and HasBean are 2 great roasters