Onwards to... Billie Eilish

darthed1981

Found the debate about modern pop and melody in the Dua Lipa thread rather interesting, so let's open it up, to a staggeringly popular artist (she has BILLIONS of streams on Spotify) whose music largely doesn't rely on melody (though she has released a few songs with lovely tunes, like the Bond theme).

I'm honestly not sure if I like her stuff at all, but it's hard not to admire it, she in some ways sounds a lot like other modern pop (miserable, deep-voiced singer, two note riffs, goes boom a lot) but she has something of her own I can't put a finger on.

Honestly, I probably don't really like her stuff that much, but I'm old (I'm nearly 40..), and its definitely GOOD, what say you all...?

thecolourbox

I'm a massive fan, probably even moreso than I am of Dua Lipa. I kind of see it as introverted music, which is a refreshing change from the usual "yeah I'm amazing and this sounds MASSIVE" type impression of many pop artists (and indeed rock).

Technically, singing the way she does is actually really hard to do in my opinion, the breathing control to sing quietly and with the phrasing like that is quite difficult to master.

But then I say all of this as a miserable introverted quiet breathy singer/musician so make of that what you will...

Edit: also I'm very impressed with Finneas who is at least half of the overall sound, to me they are a duo but I guess more marketable to call it her solo act. Not massively into his own solo stuff but as a pair they really click

darthed1981

The thing I admire most is that her personality  comes across through her music, maybe how she has managed to connect with so many people.

thecolourbox

darthed1981 said:

The thing I admire most is that her personality  comes across through her music, maybe how she has managed to connect with so many people.

Yeah I think you're right. 

Worth also pointing out that I always think of it as "headphones music", rather than "listen in the car" music or "blast out on massive speakers" music. In fact in the car I find a lot of the production is lost as the lower frequency detail just disappears. I suppose most youngsters listen to music most through headphones/earphones whilst out and about so it also works for that.

I'm 33 so probably not classed as a youngun, but I think the general mental health of younger millenials and Gen Z also provides a target for introverted and introspective music (aka, miserable, I suppose) and she has absolutely nailed that with great quality music, in my opinion YMMV etc etc

WiresDreamDisasters

I like some of what I've heard, but there are a lot of production quirks that really put me off too. The use autotune as an effect rather than a corrective tool thing has been going for probably half a millennia right now, and I still don't like it. It's a bit like when you see a movie, and there's a famous TV actor in the movie, and you spend the rest of the film thinking about their TV career. It's distracting AF.

thecolourbox

WiresDreamDisasters said:

I like some of what I've heard, but there are a lot of production quirks that really put me off too. The use autotune as an effect rather than a corrective tool thing has been going for probably half a millennia right now, and I still don't like it. It's a bit like when you see a movie, and there's a famous TV actor in the movie, and you spend the rest of the film thinking about their TV career. It's distracting AF.

That's a fair point but I suppose it depends what you pickup on for that kind of thing, I'm the same with delay effects in guitar music, and sometimes even that "muted low string percussive sound" whatever that's called in heavier music. Vive la différence I suppose

Grangousier

If you have the most recent version of Logic Pro X, you can download an Eilish track as a Logic session (the previous version included a free Beck track) - there's a YouTube video of someone going through it and there's an amazing amount there. It might not be the original session (as for obvious reasons everything's done with plugins and instruments that come with Logic), but you can see how it was put together (many many vocal tracks) and it's still an extraordinary thing. 

Winny_Pooh

Why go onward when you can go back to the source

darthed1981

Winny_Pooh said:

Why go onward when you can go back to the source

Not sure the two are the same, apart from both being women and not quite sticking to conventional singing.  If looking for influences on Billie, Lorde is a more obvious recent one.

I can hear a bit of Massive Attack, and Trip Hop in general, in Billie Eilish, there is that element of Portishead, or Garbage, certainly the characterful female singer with beats path is well trodden.

...but as I said, she has something rather unique of her own, just like Lorde does for that matter.

God music is great, there is so much of it and I feel like a fat guy with cake whenever I dig into it.

monquixote

I think she's brilliant.

As you say it's all very dark and down tempo but the same is true of portishead or massive attack.

The lyrics are also really dark which I like.

I'd listen to her over Fionna Apple any day of the week.

thecolourbox

I'm not seeing much similar with Fiona Apple except that she is female and that the phrases in that tune are generally descending. I'd say that sounded more like if Greta Thunberg did some songs (and I mean that in a good way, that would be brilliant if she did). Fiona Apple is great and may be an influence somewhere but then aren't most things influenced by other things? The fact there are still white blokes in suits playing blues rock on instruments from the 50s seems to suggest that it's not unusual

Danny1969

I really like Billy and her brother. He's an awesome talent and the driving force behind her I think. I came across her music watching car pool and been a huge fan since. 

Although it is very produced the songs tend to come across just as well stripped back to just guitar / piano and her vocal. That's the sign of a quality song generally. 

thecolourbox

Danny1969 said:

Although it is very produced the songs tend to come across just as well stripped back to just guitar / piano and her vocal. That's the sign of a quality song generally. 

Yes I feel like they were written original as the striped back guitar/keys plus her vocal, then the recorded versions are like "cool" cover versions of those original songs, if you know what I mean. White Stripes used to do that, he used to say he'd write on piano or or Acoustic by himself, then in the duo context they'd cover it just like they would on songs by others.

Song first, then you'll always have the material to fall back on

LastMantra

She's obviously very talented, but really not my cuppa tea. 

I like a hook, and more guitars 

Lestratcaster

The only song I like by her is the one she did for the new Bond movie. Apart from that her usual music isn't really appealing to me.

WiresDreamDisasters

thecolourbox said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

I like some of what I've heard, but there are a lot of production quirks that really put me off too. The use autotune as an effect rather than a corrective tool thing has been going for probably half a millennia right now, and I still don't like it. It's a bit like when you see a movie, and there's a famous TV actor in the movie, and you spend the rest of the film thinking about their TV career. It's distracting AF.

That's a fair point but I suppose it depends what you pickup on for that kind of thing, I'm the same with delay effects in guitar music, and sometimes even that "muted low string percussive sound" whatever that's called in heavier music. Vive la différence I suppose

Palm muting I believe it's called. Very big in rockabilly and Opera too. 

lukedlb

My first listen to her music was with the new documentary on Apple +. I highly recommend watching it for so many different reasons: the music, her mental strength, her intelligence, her family, her brother, pre-covid fan hugging, producing with her brother, her live performances, her image on her terms. As a father the documentary really hit a chord. I got her first cd immediately.

thecolourbox

WiresDreamDisasters said:

thecolourbox said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

I like some of what I've heard, but there are a lot of production quirks that really put me off too. The use autotune as an effect rather than a corrective tool thing has been going for probably half a millennia right now, and I still don't like it. It's a bit like when you see a movie, and there's a famous TV actor in the movie, and you spend the rest of the film thinking about their TV career. It's distracting AF.

That's a fair point but I suppose it depends what you pickup on for that kind of thing, I'm the same with delay effects in guitar music, and sometimes even that "muted low string percussive sound" whatever that's called in heavier music. Vive la différence I suppose

Palm muting I believe it's called. Very big in rockabilly and Opera too. 

That's the one, luckily I don't play rockabilly or opera either (although I did have to sing a solo from a Saint-Saens opera at sixth form but the less said about that the better I feel).

chotu495

Lorde, Dua Lipa and Billy Eilish are all excellent. Lorde’s “Pure Heroine” is an all-time favourite of mine.

Sharon van Etten for me eclipses them, but some amazing talent within those four acts.

Billys darkness and sense of humour are infectious.

Home-schooled too 

darthed1981

chotu495 said:

Home-schooled too 

Home schooled to become exactly what she is, it seems, taught music and production from a young age.

hollywoodrox

I personally think it’s a load of old crap