Well that was an experience ... (tradesmen/landscaper faffery)

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TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 7349
edited April 2021 in Off Topic
Putting aside the initial awkwardness over their approach to social distancing etc (see thread in relevant forum section if you want to go down that route) the folks who have been working on my partner's garden have just "finished" after a particularly unsatisfactory and at times very awkward experience. 

I stress "my partner's garden" because a) it is and b) I need to distance myself from the folly that was agreeing to pay in cash and to parting with the vast majority of it before the work was complete - definitely not my call 

Anyway it goes a bit like this (this is just therapeutic venting for the most part) 

Various local tradesmen go round to quote for a new patio - including digging the lawn back a bit where a tiny pond used to be and extending the size of the patio.

My partner chooses the "more colourful" of the operators because she liked them as people, and all seemed t have said pretty much similar things in terms of what they'd need to do re drainage, materials etc. They were also the cheapest, but she says that was less of a factor. 

They then offered to also replace the (not very big) lawn, and the fence and the back gate (all of which were tired to be fair) for an additional grand. Done. Price agreed. They said they'd start early in the week 2 weeks hence. 

They then bowled up middle of that week and unloaded all the slabs into the front "garden" (not a garden - low wall, some gravel, the bin - that kind of affair) and left - said they'd be back Monday of the following week.

Monday - nothing. 
Tuesday - they arrive and start to work. The main bloke - his sister, and a young girl they employ. 
Over the first couple of days the warning signs appear - he mentions in passing he's decided he should put a bit of a wall over there with a seat in, and a step over there and... etc etc. 

My partner, a person who knows her mind (and a graphic designer by trade - so that mind includes 'how things have been agreed to look') politely declines and confirms she's very happy with Plan A and let's stick to that. 

The next day or 2 are mostly him continuing to badger about his various suggested improvements and her eventually conceding on a minor one to shut him up. 

In among this he makes numerous "colourful" remarks about how lovely she looks, same to the next door neighbour who starts hiding from him (I wasn't there when this was happening and heard about it all after the fact) 

Next thing: the "black gravel" around the edges is put down. It's definitely brown. A pretty light brown. It looks odd against the black slabs that have been put down. This is pointed out. 

"It'll dry darker"
"Black?"
"Well, no, but darker"
"That's not what we said"
"Well want and see what you think"

The next day it's dried. And is now much lighter brown. 

This is pointed out.

He gets arsey but agrees he needs to replace it. (put a pin in that one for now - we'll come back to it)

He's also by now made a small retaining wall (like 2 bricks high) out of reclaimed bricks from around the garden. This "feature" was never discussed. My partner really dislike;ikes it, and that's before considering that it's done really shoddily (some bricks have mortar between, them, some have a bit, some have none). 

When asked about it he gets funny again saying he knows what looks best. It is agreed he will render it so we can at least paint over it ourselves and we will move on. 

Gravel remains brown. At mention of this he says he doesn't have any black gravel and the brown looks best in any case. 

By this point my partner is now full-on stressed every time they turn up. She's not someone who does confrontation so it's hard for her to get her head round. 

She talks to him again after plucking up courage and he agrees he said black, he'd get black and replace it. (Hold that thought) 

Step gets done. Width of step bears no resemblance to size of patio slabs - no thought to how what was used is centred - looks a bit crap. It hadn't been discussed in detail (was a concession to one of his ideas) so I guess not sure what should have been expected -  he shrugs and carries on. 

Home stretch (ha): fence panels and gate.

On their "last day" Claire goes out to look late afternoon - fence panels of various jaunty dimensions are cobbled together - there are random gaps at the bottom of them. One is huge. "stick your rabbit hutch in front of it" is the response. One (awkward get to behind a tree) is just kind of lobbed there. 

Now at this point I feel the need to stress this isn't some itinerant worker - it's a guy who has a company, website, examples of work online - a mature business. :-/ 

Claire asks when they'll be done - as it doesn't seem like that will be today - he gets even more shirty. Calls her a "wingeing woman" and wants to know why she can't say nice things about all the great work that's been done. (do I need to say what colour the gravel is as of this date?) 

Now early that morning it seems he'd said they were finishing that day and could she settle up, in cash as agreed. - oh but he'd need to come back in a. weeks or so to do the rear fence panels and the gate. 
Unwisely, she did so, holding back a token amount for the gate. And gravel. 

Actually there's a day in the middle there where he asked her for over half of that withheld cash to go get materials - which she gave him :-/ 

When I heard about that I was almost certain we'd never see them again - there's no way what she withheld would cover coming back. (particularly as most of the fence panels he'd brought were the wrong size and needed replacing too)

Skip on to today - they arrive - by this point I'm up to speed and am here when they pitch up so I deal - long story short we very calmly but very clearly agree that he's decided not to replace the rear fence panels  as he's managed to repair them (he shoved some logs against the worst holes at the bottom) but no that's not what was expected. We agree everything  that's getting done today (there were other little niggley things like the grout/stuff between slabs in the main patio was missing in big chunks in some places ) and I leave them to it. 

At the end I go out - now I don't know what this "black gravel" is they've used but it looks like it was dug up from the side of a road or a rugby club car park - just shitty dark coloured building material of various sizes :-/ 

"What is this stuff?" I ask.
"Erm, I'm not sure" says the sister.

The rest his passable. I go to usher them away. The sister says "Lester said something about the last couple of hundred pounds..." 

I explain that I don't think that would be appropriate, in the circumstances.

TLDR - never go with the cheapest options and don't choose the colourful characters bias they seem nice. Oh and never agree to pay cash (not that I would have if it were my money and decision) 

Pfft. 
Red ones are better. 
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Comments

  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 7349
    So now we'll be digging out the "black gravel" and grouting our own new patio, and getting some to replace the rear part of the fence. <huff> lol 
    Red ones are better. 
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  • chillidoggychillidoggy Frets: 17136
    So, Sambostar's still doing the landscaping, then.


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  • mgawmgaw Frets: 5239
    would you recommend them?
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  • SnagsSnags Frets: 5326
    I suppose on the plus side you haven't just got a smoking crater for a back garden.

    I do genuinely wonder how some people have the front to be so epically shit and not actually do what's been agreed.
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  • DominicDominic Frets: 16010
    Like going to Tesco and asking for a kilo of lean minced beef and they give you a kilo and a half of fatty Pork Belly ......then tell you not to complain because THEY think it will make a better Pie !
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  • boogiemanboogieman Frets: 12314
    Sounds a fiasco. Most decent trades I’ve dealt with will ask for up to 25% for materials at the start of the job, plus possibly a bit more along the way if it’s a big job. I’d always keep at least 10% back until it’s completed as agreed. 

    You can get lucky with taking the cheapest option. We had four quotes on putting in a woodburner recently.  The cheapest guy just felt right, didn’t give us a load of bulshit and had good reviews. He did a really good job, included some extra bits like supplying and fitting an oak mantle and a CO monitor for no charge and still came out £2k cheaper than the most expensive one. It actually turned out that the priciest quote, who were a shop, would’ve subbed the job out to him anyway. 
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  • GassageGassage Frets: 30826
    edited April 2021

    You should have used Stubbs.

    O'Reilly are useless.

    *An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.

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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 7349
    Gassage said:

    You should have used Stubbs.

    O'Reilly are useless.
    Haha
    Manuel "Orellymen"
    Sybill: "What?!"
    Red ones are better. 
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  • Philly_QPhilly_Q Frets: 22516
    A very well told story. :)

    It's because of situations like this that I never get anything done, ever, unless it's an absolute emergency.  I've got no idea how to find reliable tradespeople so it's always pot luck, I hate having people in or around my property and I'm hopeless at arguing with them if things go wrong.
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  • GassageGassage Frets: 30826
    Philly_Q said:
    A very well told story. :)

    It's because of situations like this that I never get anything done, ever, unless it's an absolute emergency.  I've got no idea how to find reliable tradespeople so it's always pot luck, I hate having people in or around my property and I'm hopeless at arguing with them if things go wrong.
    @TimmyO is not online. He's gone to insert a large garden gnome......

    *An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.

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  • GassageGassage Frets: 30826
    edited April 2021
    Years ago, a pal (Paul) of my other half was newly dating a landscape gardener, a feisty lady.

    We really wanted the garden sorting and we asked her to quote.

    I had just, 3 days earlier, fulfilled a life's dream and bought a 911, a 3.4 996 Carrera 4 that was 8 yrs old but I loved it. V62 AAN.

    She pulled up, reversed at full tilt right into the front on my 911, with a tow bar etc, making a right mess- (needed new bonnet, bumper, valances, radiators brake rads etc.....)

    She then strode into the house, 'Oh was that your car? Sorry- my insurance will pay, nothing to worry about...' 

    To say I was absolutely incandescent with rage at the lack of contrition and blase-ness is an understatement- I'm like "NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT? You have just killed my pristine pride and joy...you KILLED my car'

    A pretty frank exchange took place where I literally had to walk away...anyway, Paul and said lady left.....on the way home she slagged me off quite powerfully (I believe) whereupon Paul said "Look darling, I can kind of understand his anger- you just smashed the bloke's Porsche up and then weren't very apologetic...."

    At that moment, she kicked Paul out of her van on the M40 somewhere between Uxbridge and Beaconsfield on the hard shoulder and they never dated again.......

    *An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.

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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 7349
    Gassage said:
    Philly_Q said:
    A very well told story. :)

    It's because of situations like this that I never get anything done, ever, unless it's an absolute emergency.  I've got no idea how to find reliable tradespeople so it's always pot luck, I hate having people in or around my property and I'm hopeless at arguing with them if things go wrong.
    @TimmyO is not online. He's gone to insert a large garden gnome......
    Fortunately there were no load bearing walls involved (amazing what you can remember our if the blue! Great episode) 
    Red ones are better. 
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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 7349

    Gassage said:
    Years ago, a pal (Paul) of my other half was newly dating a landscape gardener, a feisty lady.

    We really wanted the garden sorting and we asked her to quote.

    I had just, 3 days earlier, fulfilled a life's dream and bought a 911, a 3.4 996 Carrera 4 that was 8 yrs old but I loved it. V62 AAN.

    She pulled up, reversed at full tilt right into the front on my 911, with a tow bar etc, making a right mess- (needed new bonnet, bumper, valances, radiators brake rads etc.....)

    She then strode into the house, 'Oh was that your car? Sorry- my insurance will pay, nothing to worry about...' 

    To say I was absolutely incandescent with rage at the lack of contrition and blase-ness is an understatement- I'm like "NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT? You have just killed my pristine pride and joy...you KILLED my car'

    A pretty frank exchange took place where I literally had to walk away...anyway, Paul and said lady left.....on the way home she slagged me off quite powerfully (I believe) whereupon Paul said "Look darling, I can kind of understand his anger- you just smashed the bloke's Porsche up and then weren't very apologetic...."

    At that moment, she kicked Paul out of her van on the M40 somewhere between Uxbridge and Beaconsfield on the hard shoulder and they never dated again.......
    Fuuuuuuck 
    Red ones are better. 
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  • IamnobodyIamnobody Frets: 6887
    From what you’ve said I’d be very keen to check how they’ve laid the patio before you go to the trouble of pointing it. They don’t sound competent at all...are any slabs rocking etc?
    Previously known as stevebrum
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  • We paid Muddy Wellies in Wimbledon to re-lay a patio the year before last. It was a disaster and if you look up their reviews on Google (one of which is mine) you'll see that we weren't the only people who suffered. It was almost funny the level of utter incompetence they brought to the task. I won't dwell on the detail, but when they lifted the slabs of the existing patio (different shapes and sizes, fitted exactly into the space, some cut precisely to fit around drains etc) THEY DIDN'T LABEL THEM. So you can imagine what happened when they tried to re-lay them. They didn't fit. That's OK because they can just buy a another couple of matching slabs to fit the gaps. Ah. No. You can't buy those slabs any more. Sigh.

    We're going to have to get it done again at some point. I think I might be able to face it in about another 10 years when the memory has faded a bit.

    The really, really annoying thing is that Muddy Wellies had a solid reputation locally for years, and that was a factor when we chose them. It only became apparent later that the company had recently been sold as a going concern and that it was effectively a completely new company trading under the previous name. I just checked and it looks like they are no longer trading, which is what they deserve.

    U.
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  • Philly_QPhilly_Q Frets: 22516
    About ten years ago I helped my friend's husband and her stepdad lay a new patio.  God knows what possessed me to get involved in such a project, I wouldn't do it now.

    A few years later my friend had remarried.  The new husband and his dad took up the patio and re-laid it - they said we'd laid the slabs upside down, so they turned them all over.  I'm 100% sure we hadn't....

    My friend has now divorced husband no. 3.  I don't think the patio had anything to do with it.
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  • SambostarSambostar Frets: 8745
    Told you man to feck them off.  Word of mouth is everything and is how I get ALL my work, no advertising, no CheckaFuntabolloc no nothing.  Give me your address, I will get up there, wrap them in gaffer tape and dispose of them to the wicker man, there is no need for this bollocks, decent tradesmen if anything are on the receiving end of shite for no reason.  Indian sandstone solid bedded on 40 to 50mm of mortar bedding on 100mm of type 1 and buttered up, depending on the slab and hand pointed as you go before the base has gone off or otherwise everyone uses water cured epoxy these days, but you still have to treat it like hand pointed mortar and work in in wet and rake it.  Fed up with idiots who think they can turn their hand to anything and are cocksure with it.  No problem with starting a company and knowing piss all, there is a place for everyone and they often will employ people who do, we all have different skillsets, but to be cocksure, not even give two shits and then take the piss.  Ginger Dagoman is gonna get them. My God, it sounds like Clockwork Orange by what you're making out?  Can't be that bad surely?  You need the metal mincer mentioned in the other post and pass then through it whilst you throw darts at their heads and drink wine, then fry up the dry offal for the dog.
    Backdoor Children Of The Sock
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  • SambostarSambostar Frets: 8745
    edited April 2021
    So, Sambostar's still doing the landscaping, then.
    You're on my list now.   Besides, if it was me I'd of been cock torching around the garden.  Just googled that, it doesn't mean what I meant it to mean.  FFS.  What's wrong with the world these days?

    Backdoor Children Of The Sock
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  • BahHumbugBahHumbug Frets: 349
    @TimmyO, are you still somewhere in the vicinity of Swindon?  The name Lester rings a bell from some bad experiences that some of my friends have had.......
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  • RobDaviesRobDavies Frets: 3062
    Philly_Q said:
    A very well told story. :)

    It's because of situations like this that I never get anything done, ever, unless it's an absolute emergency.  I've got no idea how to find reliable tradespeople so it's always pot luck, I hate having people in or around my property and I'm hopeless at arguing with them if things go wrong.
    Same here.  Our gaff is falling apart because I hate dealing with tradesmen.   They are, almost without exception, a complete shower of shitheads. 

    The exception being Alan, the bloke who fixed our drains last year - and I only phoned him out of desperation as we had wee and poo all over our patio. 
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