Giant Steps at 330 bpm

Jimbro66

Well put @viz and probably the most balanced view expressed so far.

As I've already said, in terms of technique Ben Eunson's playing is mind-blowing. I just personally don't feel that 'sheets of sound' translates very well from horn to guitar. The fluidity of horns is missing. That's just how I hear it but I totally accept that others hear it differently.

lysander

That is sadly true. 

Though I personally prefer the earlier bebop playing of Charlie Parker, Dizzy and Sonny Stitt than Coltrane, either way I’ve never heard anyone get close on the guitar - it has to be concluded that it’s just not really possible.
The best Charlier Parker guitar transcription I’ve ever heard is this one:
https://youtu.be/w43jCY0tmfk

But even then it probably doesn’t sound as good without the sax in the background 

viz

Jimbro66 said:

Well put @viz and probably the most balanced view expressed so far.

As I've already said, in terms of technique Ben Eunson's playing is mind-blowing. I just personally don't feel that 'sheets of sound' translates very well from horn to guitar. The fluidity of horns is missing. That's just how I hear it but I totally accept that others hear it differently.

lysander said:

That is sadly true. 

Though I personally prefer the earlier bebop playing of Charlie Parker, Dizzy and Sonny Stitt than Coltrane, either way I’ve never heard anyone get close on the guitar - it has to be concluded that it’s just not really possible.
The best Charlier Parker guitar transcription I’ve ever heard is this one:
https://youtu.be/w43jCY0tmfk

But even then it probably doesn’t sound as good without the sax in the background 

Very true, Brother Jim! Wizzed.

And yes, I think that’s what these guitarists are trying to - to emulate the fludity and spontaneity of the great saxophone or trumpet jazzers - with some degree of success but it’s always going to be a different instrument so they’ll never be able to capture it exactly, anyway, good banter. 

DefaultM

My wife did not like this one. 

Rocker

Jimbro66 said:

I can certainly appreciate the incredible dexterity and technical ability of players like this but the relentless barrage of notes sounds to me more akin to an endlessly nagging woman than anything of musical appeal. Sorry.

Me too.  Well said @Jimbro66.

GuyBoden

I think perhaps it's easier if you have studied the Slonimsky pattern and analysed how Giant Steps, Count Down was conceived by Coltrane to appreciate the playing. In this thread, I can hear the difference between a player constrained, imprisoned by the structure and players who can improvise with freedom unbound by structure, ie Allan Holdsworth.

A very high level of playing by Ben Eunson, beyond any player I've heard posting on this forum, but this thread like many before, has turned into the usual nonsense.

fretmeister

GuyBoden said:

I think perhaps it's easier if you have studied the Slonimsky pattern and analysed how Giant Steps, Count Down was conceived by Coltrane to appreciate the playing. In this thread, I can hear the difference between a player constrained, imprisoned by the structure and players who can improvise with freedom unbound by structure, ie Allan Holdsworth.

A very high level of playing by Ben Eunson, beyond any player I've heard posting on this forum, but this thread like many before, has turned into the usual nonsense.

Impressive playing does not mean fun to listen to.

It's like watching a maths genius work through an amazing set of numbers with flawless accuracy and high speed.
Very impressive, highly respectable, and still boring beyond words.

GuyBoden

I think perhaps it's easier if you have studied the Slonimsky pattern and analysed how Giant Steps, Count Down was conceived by Coltrane to appreciate the playing. In this thread, I can hear the difference between a player constrained, imprisoned by the structure and players who can improvise with freedom unbound by structure, ie Allan Holdsworth.

fretmeister

GuyBoden said:

I think perhaps it's easier if you have studied the Slonimsky pattern and analysed how Giant Steps, Count Down was conceived by Coltrane to appreciate the playing. In this thread, I can hear the difference between a player constrained, imprisoned by the structure and players who can improvise with freedom unbound by structure, ie Allan Holdsworth.

You said that already.fretmeister said:

GuyBoden said:

I think perhaps it's easier if you have studied the Slonimsky pattern and analysed how Giant Steps, Count Down was conceived by Coltrane to appreciate the playing. In this thread, I can hear the difference between a player constrained, imprisoned by the structure and players who can improvise with freedom unbound by structure, ie Allan Holdsworth.

A very high level of playing by Ben Eunson, beyond any player I've heard posting on this forum, but this thread like many before, has turned into the usual nonsense.

Did you mean to paste it again?

Jimbro66

When I posted an intentionally light-hearted comment about the musical content of  Ben Eunson's playing early in this thread the OP quite rightly pointed out that he'd posted the thread in the Theory category, not Music.

Inevitably the category was substantially ignored and the musical content analysed and seen from at least two very conflicting, and equally valid, perspectives with the extremes ridiculing (and patronising) each other unnecessarily. Whether a constant flow of notes at 330bpm is musical or not is subjective. The technical ability is unquestionable and that's presumably what the OP wanted to highlight.

fretmeister

There you go.

That's 70 better.

GuyBoden

fretmeister said:

No trades at all I'm afraid. I'm not playing guitar anymore.

So, you don't even play guitar.

jpfamps

fretmeister said:

There you go.

That's 70 better.

I have to admit I do find that more euphonious. Mind you working in a guitar shop has made me realise how grating the electric guitar can sound.

fretmeister

GuyBoden said:

fretmeister said:

No trades at all I'm afraid. I'm not playing guitar anymore.

So, you don't even play guitar.

You actually went trawling for that? That is pathetic.

That comment on a sales post was to cut the trade offers.... in 2015.

I do play guitar. My main instrument is bass. I also play some sax and I sing. I currently play in a 25 piece jazz big band.
None of which has anything to do with this thread or why you are cutting and pasting your own comments.

fretmeister

jpfamps said:

fretmeister said:

There you go.

That's 70 better.

I have to admit I do find that more euphonious. Mind you working in a guitar shop has made me realise how grating the electric guitar can sound.

I enjoyed that version far more too. You are right - it actually sounded like music.

Massive props to the drummer as well though.

maw4neu

Im sure the guy is beyond gifted but, honestly, for me that made no sense at all  . . . It was just a flurry of unrelated notes with literally no direction . . . . to me, that was awful . . . Sorry chaps ! !  . . . I just dont do Jazz . . . if thats what that was ??? 

jpfamps

fretmeister said:

jpfamps said:

fretmeister said:

There you go.

That's 70 better.

I have to admit I do find that more euphonious. Mind you working in a guitar shop has made me realise how grating the electric guitar can sound.

I enjoyed that version far more too. You are right - it actually sounded like music.

Massive props to the drummer as well though.

Yes, the drumming is great.

I don't think you can sound good without a great drummer, and swinging at that tempo is hard.

Barney

Reading the comments it just shows technique and ability don't make things appealing ...I think he is technically outstanding and I have heard other things he does that I prefer ...but it just shows being technically brilliant is not the be all and end all ...no disrespect to Ben who I think is a great player ..

DLM

@lysander Thanks for that Parker on guitar vid, that was cool.

lysander

DLM said:

@lysander Thanks for that Parker on guitar vid, that was cool.

You’re welcome, I love that video
That guy is a monster, these lines are incredibly hard to play so fluidly on the guitar.