Grover tuner issue

godders

I have a Sigma 00 sized acoustic that I really love but the open gear tuners (Grover) are giving me some problems. On the Bottom E there's a small nylon washer that seems to have got caught in the gear and has now traveled up the gear and is sat in completely the wrong position. Consequently it's become very stiff and "creaky" to use.

See pic here -  https://imgur.com/a/0rXJFO9

The top D tuner shows the washer in the correct position, the bottom E tuner shows that the washer has travelled all the way up and is now in totally the wrong position. You'll also see this is starting to happen on the A tuner too. I've taken the E tuner apart and tried to reseat the washer but it's become distorted having been dragged through the gear and so won't stay in position.

I've hunted high and low for replacement washers, anyone know of a source for these?

Failing that I'd appreciate views on decent quality replacement tuners (bearing in mind it's a £300 guitar so probably not going to put Waverley's on it!).

barnstorm

If that A tuner is still fine despite the travelling washer there, which appears to be doing nothing except getting in the way of the pinion, are they actually essential? Wondering if the E is stiff because there's now a washer on the button side, and not because of the absence of a washer on the screw side.

Did you measure the washer when you took the E tuner apart?

ICBM

Gotoh Sep 700s should be a drop-in replacement.

godders

barnstorm said:

If that A tuner is still fine despite the travelling washer there, which appears to be doing nothing except getting in the way of the pinion, are they actually essential? Wondering if the E is stiff because there's now a washer on the button side, and not because of the absence of a washer on the screw side.

Did you measure the washer when you took the E tuner apart?

I don't have any particularly precise measuring tools (and like I said it's a bit deformed) but looks around 6mm internal diameter and 8mm outer.

I guess the stiffness might not be caused by the missing washer although I've now removed it altogether and the E is just as bad so it being in the wrong position wasn't the cause. The A peg does feel a bit "drier" than the others as well although not as bad as the E (the A washer is still partially in position and I keep reseating it every time I tune the A string).

Really annoying that parts to service these things are so hard to come by (just being able to buy single tuner would do)!

godders

ICBM said:

Gotoh Sep 700s should be a drop-in replacement.

I'll take a look at those, thanks.

barnstorm

godders said:

I don't have any particularly precise measuring tools (and like I said it's a bit deformed) but looks around 6mm internal diameter and 8mm outer.

Could have a look at somewhere like RS Components if those measurements are rough. If you were to buy a couple of options to try, you'd only be out a fiver or so if they were no good. Reckon it would be possible to punch your own, too, if you can be bothered. New tuners that don't wind you up are always a good investment, though!

Kittyfrisk

If you do a search on 'Nylon Washers Assortment Kit UK' you'll turn up boxes of assorted washers for about £9.
I checked some washers from the 960pcs kit from Amazon (I know...) against a standard type enclosed Grover,
(original Grover in the centre with metal washer) Might be worth a try?

godders

Kittyfrisk said:

If you do a search on 'Nylon Washers Assortment Kit UK' you'll turn up boxes of assorted washers for about £9.
I checked some washers from the 960pcs kit from Amazon (I know...) against a standard type enclosed Grover,
(original Grover in the centre with metal washer) Might be worth a try?

Thanks for the suggestion, would I be right in saying that's the washer that sits in between the peg and the machinehead body? You can actually buy those with a bit of hunting.

https://www.axesrus.co.uk/Machinehead-Nylon-Tension-Washers-p/nylongwashers.htm

The problem with the washer I need is that it's very skinny (about 1mm thick) and so pretty sure there won't be a standard size washer that fits the bill.

https://imgur.com/a/cR86kZH (thumb pick for scale)

Like I said grateful for the suggestion though.

Kittyfrisk

Thanks for the suggestion, would I be right in saying that's the washer that sits in between the peg and the machinehead body? 

Yes, that's right & they will not be of any use to you.
There is some discussion about the merits of plastic bushings (or not) in similar open back tuners here https://umgf.com/grover-open-back-tuners-or-not-t92534.html
Like @barnstorm , I wonder if the washer/bushing is just there to reduce friction or slop & might not be absolutely necessary for the tuner to work?
Or, is the nylon actually the worm gear bearing surface that has disintegrated & worked its way along the shaft?