I Never Realised Just How Much Difference Truss Rod Adjustment Can Make

SlopeSoarer

I assembled a Chinese set neck guitar about 12 months ago and was initially impressed with just how resonant the guitar turned out to be, I'd say the most resonant guitar I've owned. I'd used some cheap Chinese tuners (£12 inc delivery) and tuning stability was poor but this didn't surprise me, I suppose you get what you pay for! I had wondered about whether the nut was just poorly cut but did rule this eventually, so have been thinking about upgrading the tuners.

Over time I have suspected the guitar is less resonant or I'd just got over the honeymoon period of how well I'd thought the guitar had turned out.

Yesterday I put the notched straight edge on the fretboard and there was more relief than I'd remembered, and when I had a proper look the string height was higher than I remembered too, so I adjusted the truss rod.

The end result is, the neck is pretty flat, string height down to about 1mm (which is a tad lower than I like), no fret buzz, the resonance I remembered is back and it was still in tune this morning... 24 hours later which hadn't achieved before and I now suspect the tuners are fine.

I do remember adjusting the truss rod pre-finishing/painting, obviously I didn't do a good job that time.

Now for many of you this may seem obvious but I'm still on a learning curve. 

Gerz6558

This peaked my interest. I don't think its all that obvious, unless you take a keen interest in the setup aspect of guitars.

Funnily enough I have an old squier strat which has been setup twice over the past 18 months. Always plays like a dream initially, and then over time I'm sure the action changes for the worst. Most notably around the 12th fret. I presume I have a knackered neck, that may need more regularly adjusting than the more premium guitars I own.

guitars4you

To a large degree there is not a 'correct' amount of relief whereby one setting/amount/measurement suits all players, their picking style and each guitar - But equally there is a case that to much relief makes any guitar a total pitch to play - Yet no relief and you'll probably come across shed loads of buzz on many frets/strings

For me and my playing style I'll get by with as little relief as possible - I barely see any relief when I make the appropriate checks - But I play with a very light touch - You'd often find a heavy picker would need a touch more relief

But on most guitars, you'll find a marginal variation of relief, as you move from the colder winter months to warmer summer months and back again - So on all guitars it is better to make a monthly or bi-monthly check 

But yes the relief will make a monster difference to the overall playability - But it is just part of the overall adjustment/check that is required to get the correct set-up/balance to the whole guitar 

Grumpyrocker

Adjusting neck relief was something I learned to do this year after nearly 30 years of playing. And it fixed a few issues right away. 

And having learned I got a bit obsessed about measuring with feeler gauges exactly and going for advised relief amounts.

However after a while I've started doing it by eye and feel, what looks and feels right to me. And it's made a big difference to the playability of my guitars. 

Neill

Don't know what others do but I capo the guitar at the 1st fret then hold down the low E at the highest fret and check the height at the 8th fret.  I don't bother trying to measure it, just get it so the string is just and so clear of the fret.  

I watched a Joe Walsh vid a while back and I was amazed that his tech doesn't do anything like this, just eyeballs the neck it from both ends of the guitar - maybe an experienced tech can do it this way but it still seemed a sloppy way to me.

I'd be interested how others do it. 

Roland

Grumpyrocker said:

However after a while I've started doing it by eye and feel ...

Using measurements is instructive, but at the end of the day it has to feel right. My action is a lot higher than it could be so that I can bend the strings easily.

AK99

Neill said:

Don't know what others do but I capo the guitar at the 1st fret then hold down the low E at the highest fret and check the height at the 8th fret.  I don't bother trying to measure it, just get it so the string is just and so clear of the fret.  

I watched a Joe Walsh vid a while back and I was amazed that his tech doesn't do anything like this, just eyeballs the neck it from both ends of the guitar - maybe an experienced tech can do it this way but it still seemed a sloppy way to me.

I'd be interested how others do it. 

I do it that way - originally trying to measuring the sting height at the 8-9 fret with calipers/string gauges, but now just use the thickness of a business card. The more you do it, the easier it is to gauge by eye whether the gap is within range.

 I'd say with the number of guitars Joe has and and the variety of different locations/climates they end up being used in - Joe's man could nearly set the neck relief blindfolded, backstage in a thunderstorm by now

guitars4you

Grumpyrocker said:

Adjusting neck relief was something I learned to do this year after nearly 30 years of playing. And it fixed a few issues right away. 

And having learned I got a bit obsessed about measuring with feeler gauges exactly and going for advised relief amounts.

However after a while I've started doing it by eye and feel, what looks and feels right to me. And it's made a big difference to the playability of my guitars. 

By eye and experience - No measuring device at all

guitars4you

Neill said:

Don't know what others do but I capo the guitar at the 1st fret then hold down the low E at the highest fret and check the height at the 8th fret.  I don't bother trying to measure it, just get it so the string is just and so clear of the fret.  

I watched a Joe Walsh vid a while back and I was amazed that his tech doesn't do anything like this, just eyeballs the neck it from both ends of the guitar - maybe an experienced tech can do it this way but it still seemed a sloppy way to me.

I'd be interested how others do it. 

Similar - 1st fret and 12th then look for a marginal gap at the 5th - Then 1st and last and a marginal gap at the 12th fret 

TheMadMick

Similar - 1st fret and 12th then look for a marginal gap at the 5th - Then 1st and last and a marginal gap at the 12th fret 

I do much the same thing but simply check that I get a click when I touch the middle of the string (5th fret?). Works for me on acoustics.

LastMantra

I do the same, hold the string down, but tap the string in the middle. I tell by the sound it makes. With a bit of relief you should hear metal on metal (string on fret) and after a while you can tell how much gap there is. Not an exact science but does for me.

bbill335

i wonder if the quality or "elasticity" (?) of the neck wood impacts how much/often truss adjustments need to be made. off the top of my head, my small-neck strat needs more adjusting than the chunkier-neck guitars and i don't think i've ever gotten it as flat as i'd like.

Gerz6558 said:

This peaked my interest.

it's "piqued"! i know nobody likes a pedant but rarely do i see anybody get this one correct!

WezV

bbill335 said:

i wonder if the quality or "elasticity" (?) of the neck wood impacts how much/often truss adjustments need to be made. 

Yes, it does.    You do tend to find they settle in, but some will always be more impacted by seasonal changes than others 


It doesn't mean they are flawed though.  These days I prefer to have truss rod and string tension in balance in a less stiff neck, rather than a neck that is so stiff the truss rod doesn't really do much 

ICBM

No exact science for me either. I use the G string fretted at the 1st fret and the first over the body whichever that is, and look at the gap around the 7th-8th frets. The guitar must be held in the playing position since if it's lying down the weight of the neck bends it slightly.

The ideal setting is as close to dead straight as possible but with just enough relief that the tone opens up - fret rattle occurs before it's actually obvious as rattling, but affects the tone. The exact setting varies with every guitar so there's no absolute hard and fast measurement, but generally if it's bigger than about half the diameter of the G string it's too much.

SlopeSoarer

I think what really surprised me the most was the effect to the resonance of the guitar, it sounds pretty loud unplugged and sustains really well now. Noticeably better. 

Also to a lesser degree that it is now staying in tune.

clarkefan

ICBM said:

The exact setting varies with every guitar so there's no absolute hard and fast measurement, but generally if it's bigger than about half the diameter of the G string it's too much.

Do I understand you right, @ICBM ?  Being generous that would be about a quarter of a millimetre?

ICBM

clarkefan said:

Do I understand you right, @ICBM ?  Being generous that would be about a quarter of a millimetre?

Yes - about .008"-.010", or .20-.25mm.

Interestingly the same rule of thumb - half the G string diameter - works for acoustic guitars with larger G strings, and even basses!

clarkefan

ICBM said:

clarkefan said:

Do I understand you right, @ICBM ?  Being generous that would be about a quarter of a millimetre?

Yes - about .008"-.010", or .20-.25mm.

Interestingly the same rule of thumb works for acoustic guitars with larger G strings, and even basses!

Wow, I don't think I ever fully appreciated the measurements involved before.  That explains feeler gauges, how else could one measure something like that, it's almost insignificant.

DB1

Touch, feel and eye, and I'll confidently have a tweak or two of a trussrod. Then I take it to a tech to get it mended.

There's truth in that, but I find that a 'normal' set up is too high for me, as I play using fingers and with a light touch. One FB member came round to try an ES-125, and I was a bit embarrassed because it was rattling like a couple of skeletons on heat and sounded terrible - not his playing, the guitar. I picked it up and not a rattle.

The tech that I usually use now has a standard set up (if I'm selling one) and a 'Dave' set up, which basically means that the strings are touching the back of the neck.

ICBM

clarkefan said:

Wow, I don't think I ever fully appreciated the measurements involved before.  That explains feeler gauges, how else could one measure something like that, it's almost insignificant.

You don't need to measure it. Judge it by eye, and if there's too much rattle then add relief; if there's none then try less.

DB1 said:

a 'Dave' set up, which basically means that the strings are touching the back of the neck.

I know a bass player like that. He borrows a lot of basses which belong to a dealer I do a lot of work for, and every one of them comes back with the strings almost resting on every fret. He plays with the lightest of touch and huge amounts of amp power, and they don't buzz for him... I find them unplayable like that.

Grumpyrocker

I do the 1st fret, fret where the neck meets the body, and tap the string in the middle. If there's a very small gap, then it's about right for me. As ICBM said - it's probably a fraction of the width of the G-string.