Trem springs - am I doing something wrong?

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clarkefanclarkefan Frets: 808
The Floyd trem on my Wolfgang isn't as light as I'd like so I got some weaker trem springs.

Thing is, once I screwed in the claw to bring the tuning back to pitch (with the trem resting on the body) the trem feels as stiff as it did before.

Am I just misunderstanding how these things work, and actually the strength of the springs has nothing to do with it?

And if that’s the case how do you reduce the pressure needed to operate a decked Floyd?  

Grateful for any thoughts :)


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Comments

  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31368
    What string guage and tuning are you using? 
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  • clarkefanclarkefan Frets: 808
    Very light, 9-40 tuned down a half step, Fender scale, standard tuning.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    clarkefan said:
    The Floyd trem on my Wolfgang isn't as light as I'd like so I got some weaker trem springs.

    Thing is, once I screwed in the claw to bring the tuning back to pitch (with the trem resting on the body) the trem feels as stiff as it did before.

    Am I just misunderstanding how these things work, and actually the strength of the springs has nothing to do with it?

    And if that’s the case how do you reduce the pressure needed to operate a decked Floyd?
    You can't really. The only way to reduce the tension needed to counterbalance the string pull and keep the bridge against the body is to use lighter strings.

    As you've discovered, if you use softer springs (or just two instead of three) then you'll just need to stretch them more to get back to the same tension or the bridge will rise off the body.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • clarkefanclarkefan Frets: 808
    Ahh, thought as much :(  Thanks for confirming.

    So how do some people have this "feather like" fluency with a trem, is it because the trem is set to pull up and as well as dive, or is it because they're just used to the pressure needed?
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    clarkefan said:

    So how do some people have this "feather like" fluency with a trem, is it because the trem is set to pull up and as well as dive, or is it because they're just used to the pressure needed?
    Both, but mostly the first I think. If the bridge is floating there's almost no force required to move it away from the rest position - although it does increase the further down/up you go, and that is determined by the number and strength of the springs. (Technically the 'spring constant'.)

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • clarkefanclarkefan Frets: 808
    Appreciate it, thank you.
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  • andy_kandy_k Frets: 818
    2 springs should work, start off straight, and set the claw so that the trem slightly lifts when you do a unison bend, if you can live with other strings de-tuning while bending you won't get a much lighter feel.
    A tight fitting trem arm is useful, because there is no movement to take up the slack when diving, Feline do a Floyd push in replacement which works well-but not 100 percent it is a direct fit on a Wolfgang.
    I am using 2 springs on a Frankenstein strung with 10-52, Eb tuning, dive only. I have the springs angled to provide a little more tension, most of my other floyd instruments have 3 springs, but I am using fairly heavy strings. 
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  • clarkefanclarkefan Frets: 808
    Thanks for your thoughts @andy_k .  I actually have it set with two springs, straight, and I've no issue with the strings going flat while bending (they do, a lot). 

    The arm has some small amount of slack but it's a Gotoh trem and I don't think the Feline arm fits (plus I'm left handed).  But that's not my problem though, it's a more general force thing.

    The annoying thing is I've got two of these and one is easier than the other?  I think it's a case of "man up" etc...
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 28280
    I like a light touch trem, I have just 2 springs on all trems including FR. I also have lower tension springs than standard. String 8-42 on all guitars as well.
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  • clarkefanclarkefan Frets: 808
    axisus said:
    I like a light touch trem, I have just 2 springs on all trems including FR. I also have lower tension springs than standard. String 8-42 on all guitars as well.
    Are your trems floating or decked?
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 28280
    clarkefan said:
    axisus said:
    I like a light touch trem, I have just 2 springs on all trems including FR. I also have lower tension springs than standard. String 8-42 on all guitars as well.
    Are your trems floating or decked?
    Floating
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  • clarkefanclarkefan Frets: 808
    axisus said:
    clarkefan said:
    axisus said:
    I like a light touch trem, I have just 2 springs on all trems including FR. I also have lower tension springs than standard. String 8-42 on all guitars as well.
    Are your trems floating or decked?
    Floating
    Ah ok thanks, so your experience ties in with what ICBM was thinking.
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 28280
    clarkefan said:
    axisus said:
    clarkefan said:
    axisus said:
    I like a light touch trem, I have just 2 springs on all trems including FR. I also have lower tension springs than standard. String 8-42 on all guitars as well.
    Are your trems floating or decked?
    Floating
    Ah ok thanks, so your experience ties in with what ICBM was thinking.
    Yeah, but he uses logical deduction and intelligence whereas I rely on bare naked ignorance.
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  • DeeTeeDeeTee Frets: 764
    axisus said:
    clarkefan said:
    axisus said:
    Ah ok thanks, so your experience ties in with what ICBM was thinking.
    Yeah, but he uses logical deduction and intelligence whereas I rely on bare naked ignorance.
    I do the same, but I've rebranded it as "intuition."
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  • StormshadowGuitarsStormshadowGuitars Frets: 1215
    edited May 2021 tFB Trader
    Use one less spring but screw the claw in further. 
    For 9-42 or 9-46 we can use two springs instead of three, the trem is still resting on the body but the claw is screwed in further.

    There's less resistance when using the trem

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  • skunkwerxskunkwerx Frets: 6838
    Could you not get an extra long whammy bar and utilise the extra leverage action... does it work like that? 

    If so.. something like this perhaps? 


    I jest. 
    Thats ridiculous and wouldnt work. 

    My instincts tell me a longer straight bar would make the trem lighter though. I feel like there is science involved but I’m not sure because I’m a dumbass.
    The only easy day, was yesterday...
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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 26753
    A longer bar would definitely make it feel lighter, at the expense of having to move the end of the bar further for the same amount of pitch wobble
    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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