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  • 77ric77ric Frets: 450
    edited June 8
    I’ll be honest here, I may have misunderstood what they are getting at, but isn’t that study just a flowery way of saying if you are overweight you are more likely to suffer moderate to severe COVID symptoms, compared to someone who is within healthy weight parameters. 

    Some one on a low carb high protein diet is more likely to be overweight and therefore trying to lose that weight hence the diet. Where as someone on a plant based diet is more likely to be at a healthy weight. 

    It seems to me that the number of participants are far to low to draw any firm conclusions with regarding diet and how it effects Covid severity. While someone on a low carb high protein diet is more likely to be overweight than someone on a plant based diet, but that isn’t always the case, I have known enough strict vegetarians (due to religious or personal beliefs) that are certainly overweight and possibly even classed as obese, although again that’s not always the case, and I can’t see any reference to the obesity statuses of each group of participants. 

    Just my thoughts on the matter, it’s certainly interesting but does it replicate over a much larger group of people. 
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  • Paul_CPaul_C Frets: 5588
    77ric said:
    I have known enough strict vegetarians that are certainly overweight

    :anguished: 
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  • EricTheWearyEricTheWeary Frets: 11747
    I mostly only read the end bit but the amount of other variables amongst 568 people over 6 countries must be huge? 
    Or should I just feel smug because I had veg chilli this evening? 
    Inhale away Jackson Jeffrey Jackson. 
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  • ColsCols Frets: 3235
    Interesting study.  The authors do say that one of their models do control for BMI, so it can’t just be a case of skinny vegetarians versus fat bastard Atkins dieters.  I do wonder if it’s a correlation between diet and other healthy lifestyle factors which have more impact on COVID mortality, or if there’s something direct at play.

    Its worth noting that India has a very high level of vegetarianism.  And despite the overflowing cemeteries and well-founded concerns over under-reporting for both cases and deaths, their COVID mortality rate is quite low.
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  • I'm not giving up meat.
    I am the alpha. I am the omega. I am immortal, and you will kneel and hear all words before me.
    TACOMA NARROWS BRIDGE DISASTER
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  • 77ric said:


    Some one on a low carb high protein diet is more loosely to be overweight
    That isn't even remotely true.
    I am the alpha. I am the omega. I am immortal, and you will kneel and hear all words before me.
    TACOMA NARROWS BRIDGE DISASTER
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  • DefaultMDefaultM Frets: 3641
    Being vegan doesn't mean you have a healthy diet though. Unless you want to eat salad all the time it's difficult to find things when you're out so you just end up having chips, a packet sandwich and crisps or a greggs. Then you've every intention of making yourself something for the next day, but something comes up and before you know it you're getting chips again.
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  • 77ric77ric Frets: 450
    77ric said:


    Some one on a low carb high protein diet is more loosely to be overweight
    That isn't even remotely true.
    It's a generalisation more than anything but there is a element of truth in it, and yes I did exaggerate it somewhat for examples sake.

    The write up does mention BMI in its model but I couldn't see any detail on how they were using it. Did they compare groups across each diet with closely matched BMIs?
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  • TheMarlinTheMarlin Frets: 4411
    77ric said:


    Some one on a low carb high protein diet is more loosely to be overweight
    That isn't even remotely true.
    I’m on a low carb diet.  I am not over weight, it just suits me better than a high carb diet.  

    I get less inflammation in my digestive system, and much less joint pain.  I’ve been eating like this for over 3 years.  

    This ‘study’ isn’t much of a study at all, just subjective bull crap appealing to all the CV19 paranoia and fear.  
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  • 77ric said:
    77ric said:


    Some one on a low carb high protein diet is more loosely to be overweight
    That isn't even remotely true.
    It's a generalisation more than anything but there is a element of truth in it, and yes I did exaggerate it somewhat for examples sake.

    The write up does mention BMI in its model but I couldn't see any detail on how they were using it. Did they compare groups across each diet with closely matched BMIs?
    Someone on a low carb high protein diet is not more likely to be overweight.
    I am the alpha. I am the omega. I am immortal, and you will kneel and hear all words before me.
    TACOMA NARROWS BRIDGE DISASTER
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  • SnapSnap Frets: 4706
    77ric said:
    77ric said:


    Some one on a low carb high protein diet is more loosely to be overweight
    That isn't even remotely true.
    It's a generalisation more than anything but there is a element of truth in it, and yes I did exaggerate it somewhat for examples sake.

    The write up does mention BMI in its model but I couldn't see any detail on how they were using it. Did they compare groups across each diet with closely matched BMIs?
    Someone on a low carb high protein diet is not more likely to be overweight.
    Quite. If you eat a load of meat, enough to create a calorie surplus, you'll get fat. It's a lot more complex than simply carb v protein ratio.

    I think the study is a bit iffy really. Too many unstated potential variables in there. 
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  • jonnyburgojonnyburgo Frets: 8927
    Eating meat is cruel. That either hits you in the feels or it doesnt. 
    "OUR TOSSPOT"
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 10400
    Eating meat is cruel. That either hits you in the feels or it doesnt. 
    and this is why it's important to never, ever, bring feelings to a facts fight. 

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 10400
    With regard to the study, can't be arsed to actually read the thing, but it makes for an interesting thinking point (assuming they've levelled off all the variables, which from some of the comments above, they don't seem to have) but it's probably not enough to stop me eating meat. I like meat, it tastes nice, I'll risk a possibly worse covid outcome, so long as I can have my bangers and mash. 

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • jonnyburgojonnyburgo Frets: 8927
    VimFuego said:
    Eating meat is cruel. That either hits you in the feels or it doesnt. 
    and this is why it's important to never, ever, bring feelings to a facts fight. 
    Thats true. However, saying that the meat industry is cruel is fact. Its an uncomfortable one for most but it is fact. 

    Anyhoo apologies for the hijack. Carry on.
    "OUR TOSSPOT"
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  • Eating meat is cruel. That either hits you in the feels or it doesnt. 
    It doesn't.
    I am the alpha. I am the omega. I am immortal, and you will kneel and hear all words before me.
    TACOMA NARROWS BRIDGE DISASTER
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  • jonnyburgojonnyburgo Frets: 8927
    Eating meat is cruel. That either hits you in the feels or it doesnt. 
    It doesn't.
    Fair fucks to ya
    "OUR TOSSPOT"
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 10400
    VimFuego said:
    Eating meat is cruel. That either hits you in the feels or it doesnt. 
    and this is why it's important to never, ever, bring feelings to a facts fight. 
    Thats true. However, saying that the meat industry is cruel is fact. Its an uncomfortable one for most but it is fact. 

    Anyhoo apologies for the hijack. Carry on.
    there are certainly aspects of the meat processing industry that I find distasteful for sure, however in nature when animals kill other animals for food, it's rarely pleasant (and we're just animals ourselves). That said, when done right, when we kill animals it is, objectively, the most humane way it can be done.

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • ColsCols Frets: 3235
    VimFuego said:
    Eating meat is cruel. That either hits you in the feels or it doesnt. 
    and this is why it's important to never, ever, bring feelings to a facts fight. 
    Thats true. However, saying that the meat industry is cruel is fact. Its an uncomfortable one for most but it is fact. 

    Anyhoo apologies for the hijack. Carry on.
    That’s fundamentally not relevant to the matter at hand, and actually runs the risk of detracting from the core message of the study.

    I’m going to make a wild guess here that you’re vegetarian or vegan, and would like other people to be so as well.  The study conclusion that a plant-based diet carries a lower risk of serious illness from COVID makes that a logic-driven argument.  If you accept the study conclusion, it means that not switching to the veggie option carries an acceptance of greater personal risk.

    Diverting off into a “Meat is Murder” direction makes it an emotional argument, to which it’s much easier to reply “No it isn’t”, “Don’t believe you” or “Don’t care, I’m off to make myself a bacon sandwich”.
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  • WiresDreamDisastersWiresDreamDisasters Frets: 13997
    edited June 9
    I think the propaganda around meat production is roughly the same quality of propaganda around anti-abortion activism.

    IE: If you're anti-meat eating, but pro-abortion... that makes zero sense to me.

    I'm pro both btw.
    I am the alpha. I am the omega. I am immortal, and you will kneel and hear all words before me.
    TACOMA NARROWS BRIDGE DISASTER
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  • monquixotemonquixote Frets: 13114
    I think the propaganda around meat production is roughly the same quality of propaganda around anti-abortion activism.

    IE: If you're anti-meat eating, but pro-abortion... that makes zero sense to me.

    I'm pro both btw.

    I'm not sure I follow your logic here.
    Handsome_Chris said: Like white Nile Rodgers. 
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  • jonnyburgojonnyburgo Frets: 8927
    Cols said:
    VimFuego said:
    Eating meat is cruel. That either hits you in the feels or it doesnt. 
    and this is why it's important to never, ever, bring feelings to a facts fight. 
    Thats true. However, saying that the meat industry is cruel is fact. Its an uncomfortable one for most but it is fact. 

    Anyhoo apologies for the hijack. Carry on.
    That’s fundamentally not relevant to the matter at hand, and actually runs the risk of detracting from the core message of the study.

    I’m going to make a wild guess here that you’re vegetarian or vegan, and would like other people to be so as well.  The study conclusion that a plant-based diet carries a lower risk of serious illness from COVID makes that a logic-driven argument.  If you accept the study conclusion, it means that not switching to the veggie option carries an acceptance of greater personal risk.

    Diverting off into a “Meat is Murder” direction makes it an emotional argument, to which it’s much easier to reply “No it isn’t”, “Don’t believe you” or “Don’t care, I’m off to make myself a bacon sandwich”.
    And thats why I apologisd for what was a hijack. It would be great if we were all vegan or veggie but Im not daft enough to think that would ever happen.
    "OUR TOSSPOT"
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  • WiresDreamDisastersWiresDreamDisasters Frets: 13997
    edited June 9
    I think the propaganda around meat production is roughly the same quality of propaganda around anti-abortion activism.

    IE: If you're anti-meat eating, but pro-abortion... that makes zero sense to me.

    I'm pro both btw.

    I'm not sure I follow your logic here.
    Keep animals alive regardless of human need because they're cute.
    Keep babies alive regardless of human need because they're cute.

    It's pretty tasty straw this.


    Both camps show the most horrific photos and video - usually fake - to strengthen their case.

    They're actually remarkably similar.
    I am the alpha. I am the omega. I am immortal, and you will kneel and hear all words before me.
    TACOMA NARROWS BRIDGE DISASTER
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  • Nick13Nick13 Frets: 528
    I think the propaganda around meat production is roughly the same quality of propaganda around anti-abortion activism.

    IE: If you're anti-meat eating, but pro-abortion... that makes zero sense to me.

    I'm pro both btw.

    I'm not sure I follow your logic here.
    Keep animals alive regardless of human need because they're cute.
    Keep babies alive regardless of human need because they're cute.

    It's pretty tasty straw this.


    Both camps show the most horrific photos and video - usually fake - to strengthen their case.

    They're actually remarkably similar.

    Removal of human need and therefor  humans is the only way to solve all problems to do with the food production industry.  Anyone got Thanos' number?
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  • thebreezethebreeze Frets: 1774
    VimFuego said:
    Eating meat is cruel. That either hits you in the feels or it doesnt. 
    and this is why it's important to never, ever, bring feelings to a facts fight. 
    Thats true. However, saying that the meat industry is cruel is fact. Its an uncomfortable one for most but it is fact. 

    Anyhoo apologies for the hijack. Carry on.
    "and this is why it's important to never, ever, bring feelings to a facts fight."

    That is absolutely untrue.  Not sure what a "facts fight" is and where it really gets one in the end anyway.  Feelings are are an extremely important aspect of being human and are highly valuable avenues of communication both internally and person to person.  Sadly, we're discouraged from accessing them and using them constructively, creatively and honestly.  Shutting them down completely and prohibiting any notion of them diminishes the discussion and also our sense of being human.  There's balance to be had of course and facts and objectivity are vitally important - in some situations obviously more so, in others not.  People can be scared of feelings and find them hard to understand sometimes but I think that gets worse as we're encouraged "not to go there" and that they have no place in a discussion of this kind.

    @WiresDreamDisasters take it away............
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 10400
    thebreeze said:
    VimFuego said:
    Eating meat is cruel. That either hits you in the feels or it doesnt. 
    and this is why it's important to never, ever, bring feelings to a facts fight. 
    Thats true. However, saying that the meat industry is cruel is fact. Its an uncomfortable one for most but it is fact. 

    Anyhoo apologies for the hijack. Carry on.
    "and this is why it's important to never, ever, bring feelings to a facts fight."

    That is absolutely untrue.  Not sure what a "facts fight" is and where it really gets one in the end anyway.  Feelings are are an extremely important aspect of being human and are highly valuable avenues of communication both internally and person to person.  Sadly, we're discouraged from accessing them and using them constructively, creatively and honestly.  Shutting them down completely and prohibiting any notion of them diminishes the discussion and also our sense of being human.  There's balance to be had of course and facts and objectivity are vitally important - in some situations obviously more so, in others not.  People can be scared of feelings and find them hard to understand sometimes but I think that gets worse as we're encouraged "not to go there" and that they have no place in a discussion of this kind.

    @WiresDreamDisasters take it away............
    you're absolutely right, what is most important when deciding whether certain dietary regimes are better at combatting covid 19 we must put our feelings at the forefront. Facts only come into it when everyone's feelings are catered for...

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • thebreezethebreeze Frets: 1774
    VimFuego said:
    thebreeze said:
    VimFuego said:
    Eating meat is cruel. That either hits you in the feels or it doesnt. 
    and this is why it's important to never, ever, bring feelings to a facts fight. 
    Thats true. However, saying that the meat industry is cruel is fact. Its an uncomfortable one for most but it is fact. 

    Anyhoo apologies for the hijack. Carry on.
    "and this is why it's important to never, ever, bring feelings to a facts fight."

    That is absolutely untrue.  Not sure what a "facts fight" is and where it really gets one in the end anyway.  Feelings are are an extremely important aspect of being human and are highly valuable avenues of communication both internally and person to person.  Sadly, we're discouraged from accessing them and using them constructively, creatively and honestly.  Shutting them down completely and prohibiting any notion of them diminishes the discussion and also our sense of being human.  There's balance to be had of course and facts and objectivity are vitally important - in some situations obviously more so, in others not.  People can be scared of feelings and find them hard to understand sometimes but I think that gets worse as we're encouraged "not to go there" and that they have no place in a discussion of this kind.

    @WiresDreamDisasters take it away............
    you're absolutely right, what is most important when deciding whether certain dietary regimes are better at combatting covid 19 we must put our feelings at the forefront. Facts only come into it when everyone's feelings are catered for...
    Facts only come into it when the bacon sarnies have been catered for.

    Your summary isn't what I'm saying at all.  Just it's a nonsense (and extremely limiting) to say "never, ever, bring feelings to a (facts fight)/discussion".  We're not robots/computers (yet).
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 10400
    edited June 10
    thebreeze said:
    VimFuego said:
    thebreeze said:
    VimFuego said:
    Eating meat is cruel. That either hits you in the feels or it doesnt. 
    and this is why it's important to never, ever, bring feelings to a facts fight. 
    Thats true. However, saying that the meat industry is cruel is fact. Its an uncomfortable one for most but it is fact. 

    Anyhoo apologies for the hijack. Carry on.
    "and this is why it's important to never, ever, bring feelings to a facts fight."

    That is absolutely untrue.  Not sure what a "facts fight" is and where it really gets one in the end anyway.  Feelings are are an extremely important aspect of being human and are highly valuable avenues of communication both internally and person to person.  Sadly, we're discouraged from accessing them and using them constructively, creatively and honestly.  Shutting them down completely and prohibiting any notion of them diminishes the discussion and also our sense of being human.  There's balance to be had of course and facts and objectivity are vitally important - in some situations obviously more so, in others not.  People can be scared of feelings and find them hard to understand sometimes but I think that gets worse as we're encouraged "not to go there" and that they have no place in a discussion of this kind.

    @WiresDreamDisasters take it away............
    you're absolutely right, what is most important when deciding whether certain dietary regimes are better at combatting covid 19 we must put our feelings at the forefront. Facts only come into it when everyone's feelings are catered for...
    Facts only come into it when the bacon sarnies have been catered for.

    Your summary isn't what I'm saying at all.  Just it's a nonsense (and extremely limiting) to say "never, ever, bring feelings to a (facts fight)/discussion".  We're not robots/computers (yet).
    this is a discussion about whether vegetarian diets are better at combatting covid, it's a facts fight, my initial comment was wholly and completely only about that. You have created this fiction, this strawman, in order to distract away from that. Your comment has no relevance to my initial comment as you are essentially commenting about something that was never said.
     

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • thebreezethebreeze Frets: 1774
    VimFuego said:
    thebreeze said:
    VimFuego said:
    thebreeze said:
    VimFuego said:
    Eating meat is cruel. That either hits you in the feels or it doesnt. 
    and this is why it's important to never, ever, bring feelings to a facts fight. 
    Thats true. However, saying that the meat industry is cruel is fact. Its an uncomfortable one for most but it is fact. 

    Anyhoo apologies for the hijack. Carry on.
    "and this is why it's important to never, ever, bring feelings to a facts fight."

    That is absolutely untrue.  Not sure what a "facts fight" is and where it really gets one in the end anyway.  Feelings are are an extremely important aspect of being human and are highly valuable avenues of communication both internally and person to person.  Sadly, we're discouraged from accessing them and using them constructively, creatively and honestly.  Shutting them down completely and prohibiting any notion of them diminishes the discussion and also our sense of being human.  There's balance to be had of course and facts and objectivity are vitally important - in some situations obviously more so, in others not.  People can be scared of feelings and find them hard to understand sometimes but I think that gets worse as we're encouraged "not to go there" and that they have no place in a discussion of this kind.

    @WiresDreamDisasters take it away............
    you're absolutely right, what is most important when deciding whether certain dietary regimes are better at combatting covid 19 we must put our feelings at the forefront. Facts only come into it when everyone's feelings are catered for...
    Facts only come into it when the bacon sarnies have been catered for.

    Your summary isn't what I'm saying at all.  Just it's a nonsense (and extremely limiting) to say "never, ever, bring feelings to a (facts fight)/discussion".  We're not robots/computers (yet).
    this is a discussion about whether vegetarian diets are better at combatting covid, it's a facts fight. Feelings are completely useless in a facts fight. What feelings could possibly have any use here.
    Feelings are never "completely useless" in any context.  The thing I object to is a kind cultural movement which suggests that they are.  Your approach seems to be encouraging that.  It's balance.  Facts are obviously going to be the over-riding consideration and will be given due importance in a discussion like this.  Telling people to "never, ever" and feelings are "completely useless" is, as I've said, limiting, diminishing and shutting down possibility. 
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 10400
    lol OK, whatever, if it makes you happy.

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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