difference between shuffle and swing rhythm

finest1

hi All

i've been trying to learn jazz swing guitar, especially when it comes to lead playing. after consulting lots of lessons online, sometimes the term "swing" is interchanged with shuffle.  so i was wondering how you make your comparisons, or make sense of it.  i am wondering if the distinction should be that shuffle starts on the one of the beat where swing uses the 2nd and 4th, or both interchange with each other.

thanks

EricTheWeary

I’ve never really understood what is meant by swing, although as I’ve never attempted to play any jazz it hasn’t really mattered very much. Shuffle I understood as the two thirds and a third type rhythm - although not necessarily that mechanical. 

CoffeeAndTV

Swing has scales or increments. Academically felt as a triplet with the middle note not played, there’s also a dynamic element, usually the second note accented.  

Clifford Brown’s swing is totally different to Wayne Shorter, and his is different to Wes Montgomery’s.  I was on quest many years ago to try and decipher it, you’ll not quite get there.  I would listen to whoever floats your boat and really try to hear the distance between the notes rather than the notes themselves. 

Not much help, but it’s so objective. 

merlin

Shuffle don't mean a thing. 

Lestratcaster

Shuffle to me is the eighth note triplet feel (1+a 2+a 3+a) and as mentioned above swing is the middle note not played so the first beat is longer causing it to "swing". Most noticeable in blues.

viz

Shuffle is a single type of rhythm, epytomised by the phrase “humpty dumpty”. 

Swing is a genre of rhythm and is difficult to pin down as it has a number of meanings: playing “swung” can just mean playing loosely with lots of rubato; or it can mean using any combination of a number of rhythmic components, including shuffle, but also hemiolas, tresillo, etc, all of which when combined provide that relaxed, roaming, syncopated feel that is so fundamental to jazz music. You can swing a little, or you can swing a lot. Shuffle is just humpty dumpty, not a lot else to say about it. 

octatonic

Basically you are pushing every other bar/note subdivision later.

For instance,16th notes:

1 e & a, 2 e & a, 3 e & a, 4 e & a

If you want to shuffle them then the e's and a's should be pushed later.

1  e&  a,2  e&  a, 3  e&  a,4  e&  a

It is very hard to explain but easy to hear.
Imagine heartbeat, or as viz says 'Humpty Dumpty'.

On Shuffle vs Swing.
Swing as a genre is very different to just making any musical pattern swing (so called swing time).
Comparing swing time to shuffle time- I tend to think of shuffle as a fixed thing, where you can lightly swing a piece or heavily swing a piece.

Josh_Cosku

I don't know if it is theoretically true but what I know is shuffle and swing is in general same approach but shuffle is about triplets. Swing can be around any time feel.

Shuffle: 1 2 3 - 1 2 3: but you play only 1 and 3.    1 2 3 - 1 2 3 - 1 2 3 

Swing examples: 
1 2 3 4: you play only 1 and 4:    1 2 3 4 - 1 2 3 4 - 1 2 3 4
or 
1 2 3 4 5: or 1 and 5: 1 2 3 4 5 - 1 2 3 4 5 - 1 2 3 4 5 

It doesn't even have to be an exact time feel, you can push or pull the end beat...