Stop posting this stupid bloody meme

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  • TeleMasterTeleMaster Frets: 4871
    edited July 25
    Devil#20 said:
    Ok Ian.
    I, and many others, pay at least £500 a month into this primary care system and it's crap. 
     
    Not gonna address the other stuff because frankly, it’s exhausting. But if you’re paying £500/month NI that means you’ve got to be earning £110K plus right. Why not go private if you dislike the NHS so much?
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  • Devil#20Devil#20 Frets: 329
    Devil#20 said:
    Ok Ian.
    I, and many others, pay at least £500 a month into this primary care system and it's crap. 
     
    Not gonna address the other stuff because frankly, it’s exhausting. But if you’re paying £500/month NI that means you’ve got to be earning £110K plus right. Why not go private if you dislike the NHS so much?
    I do have private medical insurance but I don't get to opt out of paying for the NHS. 

    Ian

    Lowering my expectations has succeeded beyond my wildest dreams.

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  • TeleMasterTeleMaster Frets: 4871
    edited July 25
    Well, in any case you don’t pay £500 to the NHS every month. A portion of that goes to it. You’re also paying for other stuff, like your state pension, disability allowance, unemployment benefit. It’s not the whole £500. 
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  • chris78chris78 Frets: 5248
    We’re spending about 10% gdp on the nhs, an eye watering amount, especially when you consider how much that’s risen since Blair was elected. 
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  • chris78 said:
    We’re spending about 10% gdp on the nhs, an eye watering amount, especially when you consider how much that’s risen since Blair was elected. 
    And yet, somehow... somewhere... in a far distant future.... we're expected to believe the Tories are trying to privatise it and sell it off.

    It's the biggest 9/11 Truther level conspiracy theory going in the UK, and still it persists... because of anti-establishment cultural power.

    Bye!

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  • Winny_PoohWinny_Pooh Frets: 5632
    chris78 said:
    We’re spending about 10% gdp on the nhs, an eye watering amount, especially when you consider how much that’s risen since Blair was elected. 
    And yet, somehow... somewhere... in a far distant future.... we're expected to believe the Tories are trying to privatise it and sell it off.

    It's the biggest 9/11 Truther level conspiracy theory going in the UK, and still it persists... because of anti-establishment cultural power.
    Incorrect. They are doing privatisation by stealth: private firms providing contract workers, services and drugs at higher costs than otherwise necessary and far beyond "cost ineficiencies". (I've worked a temp finance contract in a University Hospital trust and was later employed by a independent supplier of care workers, but it's easy to find journalism that clearly lays it out.)

    So in effect, money is being siphoned off to private for profit interests. Hence it costs more. The Conservatives cannot afford to play their hand too openly yet because the NHS is a sacred cow even for rabid right wing voters, who frankly are more often than not old.




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  • Nick13Nick13 Frets: 684
    edited July 25
    chris78 said:
    We’re spending about 10% gdp on the nhs, an eye watering amount, especially when you consider how much that’s risen since Blair was elected. 
    And yet, somehow... somewhere... in a far distant future.... we're expected to believe the Tories are trying to privatise it and sell it off.

    It's the biggest 9/11 Truther level conspiracy theory going in the UK, and still it persists... because of anti-establishment cultural power.

    I have no personal experience in this but from what a friend who works in sales of medical supplies to the NHS both up here and in England says....

    The systems in place for procurement etc in England are very much leaning towards the American way of doing things in England.  From what she says it would appear that it is indeed moving towards a  privatised system, just not in an above-board, noticable or transparent way (who'd have guessed it).

    As an example any stuff that is sold to nhs England is sold at say 25% more than what it is to nhs Scotland because there is a "facilitator" in England who take a 25% cut for literally doing nothing, all contact is between the merchant and nhs but this "procurement agent" which will be a company owned by a pal of or an actual cabinet member gets paid for no reason.

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  • TeleMasterTeleMaster Frets: 4871
    edited July 25
    chris78 said:
    We’re spending about 10% gdp on the nhs, an eye watering amount, especially when you consider how much that’s risen since Blair was elected. 
    And I hope they spend more too and bring it up to the levels of other comparative countries, and spend it more wisely and cut out the wastage. It really is an unbelievable amount and it needs to go to the patients 
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  • chris78chris78 Frets: 5248
    chris78 said:
    We’re spending about 10% gdp on the nhs, an eye watering amount, especially when you consider how much that’s risen since Blair was elected. 
    And I hope they spend more too and bring it up to the levels of other comparative countries, and spend it more wisely and cut out the wastage. It really is an unbelievable amount and it needs to go to the patients. 
    The eurozone averages 10.4% gdp. It’s a myth we underspend. Agree a million percent about waste - that’s the issue, not the spending 
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  • TeleMasterTeleMaster Frets: 4871
    edited July 25
    chris78 said:
    chris78 said:
    We’re spending about 10% gdp on the nhs, an eye watering amount, especially when you consider how much that’s risen since Blair was elected. 
    And I hope they spend more too and bring it up to the levels of other comparative countries, and spend it more wisely and cut out the wastage. It really is an unbelievable amount and it needs to go to the patients. 
    The eurozone averages 10.4% gdp. It’s a myth we underspend. Agree a million percent about waste - that’s the issue, not the spending 
    Well, even if you do it by average, which I believe isn’t a fair comparison (because poorer countries spend a lot less), we spend lower than the average. We should compare to the countries of a similar GDP. 

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Healthcare_expenditure_statistics

    Germany 11.5%,

    France 11.2%

    UK 10.2%

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/317708/healthcare-expenditure-as-a-share-of-gdp-in-the-united-kingdom/

    I would observe that we are underspending. So not only are we spending less than countries that are similar to us, but we’re spending less than the average of an economic area that has some very poor nations. So I personally believe we should be matching that. When you take into account the overspending, the actual amount that gets to the service that the patient uses must be much less than other countries, although I don’t know what level of wastage/cronyism there is in those countries. 

    I know that we’ll agree that there’s no point doing it if we aren’t doing it properly, and if we aren’t cutting out overspending and wastage. Covid has shown us that money gets thrown away on stuff that isn’t worth the money, (PPE, Test & Trace) and this needs to be looked at across the NHS seriously in some cross party or independent review. And no, Chris. I don’t mean pensions. lol 
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  • chris78chris78 Frets: 5248
    I’ll leave pensions alone then, but it is of course a crippling cost for the public purse, not just in the nhs, but all public sector employees.

    I think if there is a review, it needs to be root and branch of the NHS with nothing off limits.

    There are definitely countries that spend more- undeniable. However, we are bang average in terms of oecd countries. In terms of other g7, we spend more than Italy and we aren’t a billion miles from Canada and Japan (under 1% gdp). We have one of the highest shares of healthcare spending in the public sector though and maybe that’s where the issue is? Publicly funded and free at the point of delivery is a religion in the U.K., but we need to look at how other countries run healthcare and not just have a vast bureaucratic monolith expected to do it all.
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 20664
    edited August 7
    I'd never seen it until you brought it to my attention.  I like it.  I'm going to post it everywhere!
    The shits have gone !!
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  • Emp_Fab said:
    I'd never seen it until you brought it to attention.  I like it.  I'm going to post it everywhere!
    Thicko is, as thicko does!

    Bye!

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  • Nick13 said:
    chris78 said:
    We’re spending about 10% gdp on the nhs, an eye watering amount, especially when you consider how much that’s risen since Blair was elected. 
    And yet, somehow... somewhere... in a far distant future.... we're expected to believe the Tories are trying to privatise it and sell it off.

    It's the biggest 9/11 Truther level conspiracy theory going in the UK, and still it persists... because of anti-establishment cultural power.

    I have no personal experience in this but from what a friend who works in sales of medical supplies to the NHS both up here and in England says....

    The systems in place for procurement etc in England are very much leaning towards the American way of doing things in England.  From what she says it would appear that it is indeed moving towards a  privatised system, just not in an above-board, noticable or transparent way (who'd have guessed it).

    As an example any stuff that is sold to nhs England is sold at say 25% more than what it is to nhs Scotland because there is a "facilitator" in England who take a 25% cut for literally doing nothing, all contact is between the merchant and nhs but this "procurement agent" which will be a company owned by a pal of or an actual cabinet member gets paid for no reason.

    That's actually an example of public sector incompetence. I've seen plenty of it.
    Is there some evidence that the agent is a pal of a cabinet minister?
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  • We can't have things both ways in an argument

    If a massive, monolithic public service NHS is the best way to deliver healthcare now,

    and if the UK funding into the NHS is about average for G7 countries,

    and if the health outcomes in the UK is worse than in all the other comparable countries that don't have monolithic healthcare, and do use more private-sector medical delivery,
    (18th in this survey Best Healthcare In The World 2021 (worldpopulationreview.com))

    then it's looking likely that the NHS-public-sector-only approach is not the best one
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  • very interesting graph I found (not part of my argument, just interesting)

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  • Nick13Nick13 Frets: 684
    Nick13 said:
    chris78 said:
    We’re spending about 10% gdp on the nhs, an eye watering amount, especially when you consider how much that’s risen since Blair was elected. 
    And yet, somehow... somewhere... in a far distant future.... we're expected to believe the Tories are trying to privatise it and sell it off.

    It's the biggest 9/11 Truther level conspiracy theory going in the UK, and still it persists... because of anti-establishment cultural power.

    I have no personal experience in this but from what a friend who works in sales of medical supplies to the NHS both up here and in England says....

    The systems in place for procurement etc in England are very much leaning towards the American way of doing things in England.  From what she says it would appear that it is indeed moving towards a  privatised system, just not in an above-board, noticable or transparent way (who'd have guessed it).

    As an example any stuff that is sold to nhs England is sold at say 25% more than what it is to nhs Scotland because there is a "facilitator" in England who take a 25% cut for literally doing nothing, all contact is between the merchant and nhs but this "procurement agent" which will be a company owned by a pal of or an actual cabinet member gets paid for no reason.

    That's actually an example of public sector incompetence. I've seen plenty of it.
    Is there some evidence that the agent is a pal of a cabinet minister?

    Yes
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  • AdeyAdey Frets: 1184
    Nick13 said:
    Nick13 said:
    chris78 said:
    We’re spending about 10% gdp on the nhs, an eye watering amount, especially when you consider how much that’s risen since Blair was elected. 
    And yet, somehow... somewhere... in a far distant future.... we're expected to believe the Tories are trying to privatise it and sell it off.

    It's the biggest 9/11 Truther level conspiracy theory going in the UK, and still it persists... because of anti-establishment cultural power.

    I have no personal experience in this but from what a friend who works in sales of medical supplies to the NHS both up here and in England says....

    The systems in place for procurement etc in England are very much leaning towards the American way of doing things in England.  From what she says it would appear that it is indeed moving towards a  privatised system, just not in an above-board, noticable or transparent way (who'd have guessed it).

    As an example any stuff that is sold to nhs England is sold at say 25% more than what it is to nhs Scotland because there is a "facilitator" in England who take a 25% cut for literally doing nothing, all contact is between the merchant and nhs but this "procurement agent" which will be a company owned by a pal of or an actual cabinet member gets paid for no reason.

    That's actually an example of public sector incompetence. I've seen plenty of it.
    Is there some evidence that the agent is a pal of a cabinet minister?

    Yes

    That's that sorted then....
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