Concealed cisterns - are they shit?

horse

I'm planning some bathroom improvements, and am wondering whether all concealed cisterns have the same issues my 15yr old Thomas Dudley one does:

Things I don't like about it -

In winter it is a real condensation magnet - causes a lot of dripping water into the floor below / will eventually cause a problem. I know you can get insulated ones now, if anybody knows if that makes much difference? I'm also planning on upgrading the extractor fan and improving the insulation above the room to try and reduce the condensation.

Parts never seem particularly robust for their cost when I have to replace them.

The flush pipe loosens itself from the bottom of the cistern every now and again, and because it's concealed I don't notice...

So I suppose my question is, would something like an insulated Grohe concealed cistern improve much in these areas, or is this just what they're all like?

Any advice much appreciated thanks.

drofluf

Either I was lucky or you were unlucky but we’ve had them for about the last 15 years in three different houses without an issue. 

ICBM

Likewise, I have two in my house which have never given any problem with condensation - I have no idea of the make, but they're plastic not metal. One did leak at the joint to the flush pipe, but was easy enough to fix once I'd worked out how to get it out without totally destroying the boxing - which was of course built after the cistern was fitted.

The one I've had to replace the whole flush mechanism on was the traditional non-concealed one.

steveledzep

When I was specifying bathrooms, I always chose Geberit.  Flush outlet is part of the body moulding, not a connected piece.  Anything you may need to adjust/replace, is accessible behind the flush plate.  Not familiar with Grohe products.

boogieman

We’ve got two, both here in the house when we bought it, both put in around 25 years ago as far as I can make out. They’re just plastic things, boxed into mdf cabinets, no insulation. No condensation on ours…can’t see why you’d get condensation tbh, unless yours are ceramic? Or your bathroom is very cold in winter? 

Also not sure how your flush pipes are loosening by themselves? There must be some movement somewhere to make that happen, maybe the pan moving? Tried siliconing the flush pipe nut in place? 

Adey

Modern ones have polystyrene insulation around them. Cold water entering them in a humid bathroom is likely to cause condensation otherwise.

If you're getting one, buy a known make as Geberit noted earlier.

I've put two in our house for use with wall hung toilets to keep the floor tidier

marcus449

i’ve got 5 grohe concealed cisterns, no problems at all and so much easier to maintain 

exocet

I've got 2 Gerberit concealed cisterns. Been in place over 10 years only 1 issue with one unit - a sealing washer develops "blisters" resulting in water leaking (dripping continously)  into pan. 10 minute fix.

Kittyfrisk

marcus449 said:

i’ve got 5 grohe concealed cisterns, no problems at all and so much easier to maintain 

Five? That is some serious shit, man.

Dominic

Have probably installed well over 1000 of them in various developments ........never had an issue

Dominic

^ Geberit not Grohe but doubt there's much difference

horse

Thanks everyone - sounds like they're not shit then.

I guess my issue with condensation can't have been that rare if manufacturers started to insulate them to prevent that happening, so maybe an insulated unit along with better extraction might help.

alexh

I don't know if they're shit but didn't fit one in our recent refurb and wouldn't unless the space required it. Not least because of the difficulties there would be if we were unlucky to have an issue. In some period of time, be it 1 year or 25 there will be an issue that needs addressed. I think in general the need to hide everything away in pursuit of some aesthetic ideal is silliness. 

mbe

alexh said:

I don't know if they're shit but didn't fit one in our recent refurb and wouldn't unless the space required it. Not least because of the difficulties there would be if we were unlucky to have an issue. In some period of time, be it 1 year or 25 there will be an issue that needs addressed. I think in general the need to hide everything away in pursuit of some aesthetic ideal is silliness. 

Maybe a throwback to Victorian prudishness. "Ee mother! Get them piano legs covered up."

Dominic

alexh said:

I don't know if they're shit but didn't fit one in our recent refurb and wouldn't unless the space required it. Not least because of the difficulties there would be if we were unlucky to have an issue. In some period of time, be it 1 year or 25 there will be an issue that needs addressed. I think in general the need to hide everything away in pursuit of some aesthetic ideal is silliness. 

Geberit is designed as a full frontal access system with perfect German Vorsprung durch tecnic

Nitefly

Kittyfrisk said:

marcus449 said:

i’ve got 5 grohe concealed cisterns, no problems at all and so much easier to maintain 

Five? That is some serious shit, man.

Excellent work.

Hurling_Fruitmig

alexh said:

I don't know if they're shit but didn't fit one in our recent refurb and wouldn't unless the space required it. Not least because of the difficulties there would be if we were unlucky to have an issue. In some period of time, be it 1 year or 25 there will be an issue that needs addressed. I think in general the need to hide everything away in pursuit of some aesthetic ideal is silliness. 

I used to think like that until I bought my own place and realised that taking that to its logical extreme would mean exposed pipes and cables throughout ‘just in case’.

darthed1981

Got a concealed cistern in an mdf box, and the flush siphon is broken, so merrily been flushing the toilet with a bucket for ages because no plumber wants to come swap it.

Would do it myself but I'm worried about being able to get the flush pipe into the bowl (and out of it) as I can't see the bluddy thing.  Wouldn't know until I get a wet patch on the ceiling downstairs if I've not got it right.

Tried to find the same model so could just swap the top part and the switch ( both are broken) and they don't make them anymore).

Edit: any forum plumbers feel free to chip in btw

alexh

Hurling_Fruitmig said:

alexh said:

I don't know if they're shit but didn't fit one in our recent refurb and wouldn't unless the space required it. Not least because of the difficulties there would be if we were unlucky to have an issue. In some period of time, be it 1 year or 25 there will be an issue that needs addressed. I think in general the need to hide everything away in pursuit of some aesthetic ideal is silliness. 

I used to think like that until I bought my own place and realised that taking that to its logical extreme would mean exposed pipes and cables throughout ‘just in case’.

Yes, although if you are unable to do things without taking them to the extreme logical conclusion I wonder how you manage any of the normal activities of daily living let alone DIY . I have things fitted that can be accessed easily, plumbed fiitings with isolator valves to isolate from the main system, without having all the pipes and wires in my house exposed. 

tone1

Geberit frames and concealed systems x 3… really nice to fit too…highly recommended