Parisienne Walkways - what key is it played on?

Rocker

Phil Lynott & Gary Moore played on Parisienne Walkways.  In what key did they play it?  Thanks.

DrCornelius

I've always thought it was A minor

viz

DrCornelius said:

I've always thought it was A minor

Ja

sev112

But what mode ?

DrCornelius

sev112 said:

But what mode ?

I will refer you to Viz as modes give me a nosebleed 

viz

Haha, just A minor with a major Dominant chord (E7 not Em7). It isn’t modal. 

Bellycaster

Just to be awkward, he does put in an A Major Chord at the end of verse one. On occasion he swaps the Bm7b5 for a B7 and the E7 for an EMaj.

sev112

You say not modal but the dominant note appears to be E - what does that mean modally ?

viz

sev112 said:You say not modal but the dominant note appears to be E - what does that mean modally ?

The important thing is not the note E, but the tonality of the dominant chord. Is the tonality major or minor?

In pure Aeolian, the dominant chord is minor, so you would hear Em (or Em7)

But this is not modal music, it’s not Aeolian, it’s a bastardisation of it, where the dominant chord is majorized. It has a major 3rd in it. In this case, that chord is an E, and its major 3rd is a G#. (A Aeolian has the notes ABCDEFGA. Not G#). So on most chords that use it, you hear a G, but over the E chord, the G# is used. In the chords and also in the melody. 

The G# in the E chord does something special. It makes the cadence from E back to Am very smooth. Because the G# is Am’s ‘leading note’, which sounds awkward and disharmonious in the context of A, being so close to it, so when the chord moves from E to Am, the relief is greater. Most minor pieces utilise the major dominant chord option because it’s so much smoother and makes the cadence so much more effective. 

Santana’s Black Magic Woman is mostly a modal song - it’s in D and has the tell-tale minor dominant chord (mostly) and is a rare example of D Aeolian. So you hear the Am (or Am7) chord instead of A or A7. (Actually he’s a bit ambivolent. Sometimes he plays A, other times Am)

Bellycaster said:

Just to be awkward, he does put in an A Major Chord at the end of verse one. On occasion he swaps the Bm7b5 for a B7 and the E7 for an EMaj.

Just to be awkward, he does put in an A Major Chord at the end of verse one. - yep, indeed, that’s a secondary dominant to set up the next chord, which is the Dm - it’s as though it’s a V-i cadence, though it’s actually a Ib7-iv progression. 

On occasion he swaps the Bm7b5 for a B7 - yep, the Bdim is diatonically “correct” within the key; when he uses the B7, it’s a secondary dominant to the E7 - it’s a II-V-i instead of a ii(dim)-V-i

and the E7 for an EMaj - yep, leaving the optional 7 off the Dominant makes it a dominant chord, not a dominant 7th chord. 

greejn

Trying to simplify things! Any song in Am like this basically uses the same chords as C major. Em is often changed to E7, stronger resolution to Am. So just alter one note, G to G sharp, when that chord arrives.

JanekLubanski

My version from my little black rock song book goes Amin...Dmin7...Dmin7/G...CMaj7. F**k knows what mode it's in.

greejn

Why not forget about modes and learn the arpeggios for each chord? It's kind of a rehash of Autumn Leaves anyway.

Bellycaster

Thanks, I knew I'd get a decent theory explanation of that from you @viz ;

Just for clarity, I meant me being awkward rather than Mr Moore  

PhilW1

JanekLubanski said:

. F**k knows what mode it's in.

I doubt Gaz knew either

viz

greejn said:

Why not forget about modes and learn the arpeggios for each chord? It's kind of a rehash of Autumn Leaves anyway.

Yes - even more so is Still got the blues, as they both start on the 4 chord. 

The earliest example of this progression I can think of is Vivaldi’s violin concerto in A minor, written in 1711 and his D minor oboe concerto, though I’m sure there are many many earlier examples. There are literally hundreds of examples of this progression as it’s basically just back-cycling round the circle of 5ths. 

They all have the same feature, which is a melody repeated 3 or 4 times, each time a tone lower. It’s normally 3 times in the Autumn Leaves version, and 4 in the Parisienne Walkways version (as there’s one extra chord at the beginning and a bit more room for the melody). 

Danny1969

I was going over some licks from Parisian with a young student. I said there's some great melancholy licks in this song, they sound quite moving against the chord structure. We spent about 15 minutes on the licks, working on the phrasing and vibrato  so it sounded melancholy like the record, then he said 

"So this melancholy guy, what band is he in ?" 

jpfamps

I've always considered it A minor, but utilizing the harmonic minor scale which has a G# rather than a G natural, thus the dominant chord is E7 rather than Em7.

mart

Danny1969 said:

.. 
"So this melancholy guy, what band is he in ?" 

Please tell me that you answered "smashing pumpkins".

viz

jpfamps said:

I've always considered it A minor, but utilizing the harmonic minor scale which has a G# rather than a G natural, thus the dominant chord is E7 rather than Em7.

Exactly. 

(I mean, he uses harmonic minor scale when the dominant chord is being played, not when other chords are in use. Which is what you mean, I know). 

guitars4you

greejn said:

Why not forget about modes and learn the arpeggios for each chord? It's kind of a rehash of Autumn Leaves anyway.

I play my own pseudo jazz variation of Autumn Leaves - Fine when playing melody/chords but come to a solo and I find it so hard to get Parisienne Walkways out of my mind and almost go there by default

Isn't Fly me the moon the same/similar chord sequence ?

viz

guitars4you said:

greejn said:

Why not forget about modes and learn the arpeggios for each chord? It's kind of a rehash of Autumn Leaves anyway.

I play my own pseudo jazz variation of Autumn Leaves - Fine when playing melody/chords but come to a solo and I find it so hard to get Parisienne Walkways out of my mind and almost go there by default

Isn't Fly me the moon the same/similar chord sequence ?

Yep. Here is a (definitely non-complete!) list of progressions that follow the Parisienne Walkways format, that I've come across in my stumblings through music:

·         Parisienne Walkways

·         Blue Bossa

·         I Will Survive

·         Burn (the middle 8)

·         Fly me to the Moon

·         Lou Reed - Perfect Day

·         Mike Mullen’s Space Overture

·         Yngwie Malmsteen - Rising Force

·         Pink Panther moat scene (theme 1)

·         Britten’s Young Person’s Guide to the Orchestra

·         Vivaldi's Violin Concerto in Am, and also Oboe Concerto in Gm I think

And in the Still Got the Blues format (which starts on the iv chord, rather than the i chord):

·         Still got the Blues

·         Autumn Leaves

·         Emporte Moi

·         Europa

·         Nordrach

·         Y Volvere

·         All the Things You Are

·         the MASH theme tune

·         Pink Panther moat scene (theme 2)

·         Hello (Lionel Ritchie) 

Cheers.