300 vs 700 Quid Precision

thegummy

Can any knowledgeable/experienced people give me some details on the things that are better about a Fender Player Precision and something like a Squier Classic Vibe or a Vintage V4?

I have a MIM 50s Precision that I love and am totally happy with but I would really like to get a second Precision, possibly even temporarily, so I can have flats on one and rounds on the other and be able to swap between them in real time and get a much better comparison than I can get from swapping the strings on the same bass every now and then.

So, because it's for that specific purchase, I don't want to spend too much money on it but depending on which ways the cheaper ones are inferior to the Player, I don't want a quality difference between the two basses interfering with the comparison.

Schnozz

A Precision is a very (very) simple instrument to build.

I owned a Bravewood '55 Precision that cost me £1000 and I now own a Dean Paramount 4 that cost £550.

Both of them were/are brilliant, but the only difference was the Seymour Duncan Antiquity pickup (in the Bravewood).

I think if I switch the hot, split Dean pickup (which suits hard rock), I'll have the same bass but without the 60 cycle hum.

If you go sub £500, you tend to have to upgrade the machineheads/tuners.

Mykesbass

For your purpose you really want two identical basses. Might be worth getting two Harley Bentons to do the string comparison, then sell them off afterwards.

thegummy

Mykesbass said:

For your purpose you really want two identical basses. Might be worth getting two Harley Bentons to do the string comparison, then sell them off afterwards.

That's a good point, if I wanted the comparison to be very accurate and/or was going to make a Youtube video about it for others or whatever I'd be better with 2 identical basses.

I'm not sure I need that kind of accuracy though, it depends what the differences actually are. Essentially I just want to be able to record bass parts using both for a few months or more to see if I get a better feeling for the differences it makes to different tracks.

I'll need to let your point mull around my head to see if I think I can get a good enough comparison without the basses being identical.

ICBM

It's impossible to say without trying the individual bass unfortunately. At anything under Fender CS level there is more variation between individual instruments than there is between ranges.

A friend of mine had two MIM Standard Precisions - the first, which thankfully he was able to return, was an utter dog... the second, which is an identical model, is one of the best modern Precisions I've ever played.

fretmeister

After decades of looking for “my” precision I got a 2012 Fender American Special.
£600 used. Slightly thinner body than a US standard, Mex level bridge and tuners. 

Was 8lb, now 7 3/4 after I put hipshot Ultralites on it.

Neck is a little slimmer front to back too.

It’s a lovely bass. The Specials are well worth looking for.

Funkfingers

ICBM said:

It's impossible to say without trying the individual bass unfortunately. At anything under Fender CS level there is more variation between individual instruments than there is between ranges.

Pretty much nails the situation.

*

I appear to have four Precision Basses. My favourite - and the most expensive - is the Fender AV63 re-issue. The neck profile is perfectly suited to those classic Jamerson and Dunn bass lines. One's fretting hand kinda dances between the chosen notes. A joy to play.

If I shut my eyes, I can fool myself that my beaten up Squier Silver Series P is almost as good. (A Fender USA pickup upgrade helps with this.) Authentically light but lacking the balls of the American instrument.

My Squier Vintage Modified P is noticeably different. It is heavier. It comes with PJ pickups. The fingerboard is narrower at the nut. 1¾" can be more difficult to span but, IMO, is more fun to play on.

The outlier of my quartet is a Fender 1978/79 factory fretless. Typical CBS era boat anchor. Not the heaviest I have ever shouldered but not far off. 

thegummy

ICBM said:

It's impossible to say without trying the individual bass unfortunately. At anything under Fender CS level there is more variation between individual instruments than there is between ranges.

A friend of mine had two MIM Standard Precisions - the first, which thankfully he was able to return, was an utter dog... the second, which is an identical model, is one of the best modern Precisions I've ever played.

Would you say that if they were handed a couple of basses with the logos sanded off, no one would be able to tell which was a Squier and which was a Player for example?

thegummy

BTW, I just had a look on Reverb for Precisions and, I know the current used prices are terrible but every one on there was listed at pretty much the same price as a new one!

Why would anyone buy them??

Funkfingers

thegummy said:

Why would anyone buy them?

Retailers are struggling to obtain supplies. A customer wanting a P Bass in a specific colour may have to scour numerous dealer ads to find one. When only pre-owned supplies are available, the asking prices shoot up.

thegummy said:
Would you say that, if they were handed a couple of basses with the logos sanded off, no one would be able to tell which was a Squier and which was a Player for example?

It is possible to tell the difference. As mentioned earlier, the fingerboards and string spacings are at different widths. A vintage correct model should have a 7¼" fingerboard radius. The Squier VM/CV is a flatter, modern radius of 9½". You feel this more than see it. Whichever radius your muscle memory is attuned to, the other radius will feel "wrong" for a few minutes.

Would I play paid gigs on a Squier VM/CV bass guitar? Hell, yeah.

thegummy

Funkfingers said:

It is possible to tell the difference. As mentioned earlier, the fingerboards and string spacings are at different widths. A vintage correct model should have a 7¼" fingerboard radius. The Squier VM/CV is a flatter, modern radius of 9½". You feel this more than see it. Whichever radius your muscle memory is attuned to, the other radius will feel "wrong" for a few minutes.

Would I play paid gigs on a Squier VM/CV bass guitar? Hell, yeah.

Let's say hypothetically the person isn't aware of the specs of available models to be able to know that way - I mean is there nothing objectively inferior about the Squiers and it's purely a case of getting more favourable odds in the QC lottery?

UnclePsychosis

I've got a Player Precision and have previously owned multiple guitars/basses by the likes of Vintage.

For me, the Player is obviously a better instrument. The fit and finish is great, the electronics are better quality, and it sounds great.

I used to own a Vintage (brand) Jazz bass and whilst it was an excellent instrument and punched above its weight, it definitely wasn't as good objectively as my Player P is. And that was a good example. 

The question, I guess, is whether the Player is 2 or 3 times as good (it's 2 or 3 times the price).... Possibly not, but there's diminishing returns at all price points these days.

Obviously there are exceptions but comparing a bad Player against a good cheapo is an unfair comparison, as would comparing a bad cheapo against a good Player. Taking like with like, for me the Player series are worth the upgrade. 

ICBM

thegummy said:

Let's say hypothetically the person isn't aware of the specs of available models to be able to know that way - I mean is there nothing objectively inferior about the Squiers and it's purely a case of getting more favourable odds in the QC lottery?

'Favourable odds' is a good description. I would say there is an objective difference in quality of manufacture - not huge - but that doesn't always translate into a better-sounding or better-feeling instrument... that depends more on the individual pieces of wood. You can find excellent resonant Squiers and bad dead-sounding Fenders, and vice versa. It doesn't correlate with weight either, light ones are more comfortable but don't always sound better.

The reason Fender CS seem so consistently good is, I'm fairly sure, that they do select the necks and bodies carefully - not that they're "hand made" (they're not).

fretmeister

ICBM said:

thegummy said:

Let's say hypothetically the person isn't aware of the specs of available models to be able to know that way - I mean is there nothing objectively inferior about the Squiers and it's purely a case of getting more favourable odds in the QC lottery?

'Favourable odds' is a good description. I would say there is an objective difference in quality of manufacture - not huge - but that doesn't always translate into a better-sounding or better-feeling instrument... that depends more on the individual pieces of wood. You can find excellent resonant Squiers and bad dead-sounding Fenders, and vice versa. It doesn't correlate with weight either, light ones are more comfortable but don't always sound better.

The reason Fender CS seem so consistently good is, I'm fairly sure, that they do select the necks and bodies carefully - not that they're "hand made" (they're not).

This sounds right to me.

Before my American Special the nicest P from that brand I had ever played was a Squier.

I'd still have a Sandberg P (the VS4) above a Fender if I was buying new though.. Have to change the god awful Delano pickup though. If I buy a P I want it to sound like a P, not a sodding Dingwall!

UnclePsychosis

I would probably have bought a Sandberg when I bought my Player but for exactly the same reasons @fretmeister ;

fretmeister

The answer is the Aguilar 60s wind P pickup or a Fender custom shop

thegummy

ICBM said:

'Favourable odds' is a good description. I would say there is an objective difference in quality of manufacture - not huge - but that doesn't always translate into a better-sounding or better-feeling instrument... that depends more on the individual pieces of wood. You can find excellent resonant Squiers and bad dead-sounding Fenders, and vice versa. It doesn't correlate with weight either, light ones are more comfortable but don't always sound better.

The reason Fender CS seem so consistently good is, I'm fairly sure, that they do select the necks and bodies carefully - not that they're "hand made" (they're not).

Cheers.

Am I right to conclude that if I went for one of the cheaper basses, as long as nothing stands out to me that I dislike, it'll be a good enough representation of "a P bass" for my comparison?

fretmeister

thegummy said:

ICBM said:

'Favourable odds' is a good description. I would say there is an objective difference in quality of manufacture - not huge - but that doesn't always translate into a better-sounding or better-feeling instrument... that depends more on the individual pieces of wood. You can find excellent resonant Squiers and bad dead-sounding Fenders, and vice versa. It doesn't correlate with weight either, light ones are more comfortable but don't always sound better.

The reason Fender CS seem so consistently good is, I'm fairly sure, that they do select the necks and bodies carefully - not that they're "hand made" (they're not).

Cheers.

Am I right to conclude that if I went for one of the cheaper basses, as long as nothing stands out to me that I dislike, it'll be a good enough representation of "a P bass" for my comparison?

Yes.

It's the only instrument more simple than a telecaster. There's not a lot to go wrong.

Funkfingers

thegummy said:

Am I right to conclude that, if I went for one of the cheaper basses, as long as nothing stands out to me that I dislike, it'll be a good enough representation of "a P bass" for my comparison?

The single most critical details are the nut material, the pickup and the electronics.

It is fair to say that the machineheads on a Squier are cheaper and slightly nastier than the MIM Fender. They are perfectly functional but not as nice to use.

Ditto the BadAss and Gotoh-alike high mass bridges. (Not a patch on the real things.)


Getting back to the original flats versus rounds question, is your playing style predominantly plectrum or fingers and thumb?


TBH, if I had £300 - 600 to throw at this dilemma, I would probably invest in an American pickup, a bone nut and a set of flatwound strings for the P Bass. It is a reference sound for which you will always find uses.

The balance of the budget might be better invested in a "modern", two pickup bass guitar.

thegummy

Funkfingers said:

Getting back to the original flats versus rounds question, is your playing style predominantly plectrum or fingers and thumb?


TBH, if I had £300 - 600 to throw at this dilemma, I would probably invest in an American pickup, a bone nut and a set of flatwound strings for the P Bass. It is a reference sound for which you will always find uses.

The balance of the budget might be better invested in a "modern", two pickup bass guitar.

I already have flatwounds on my P bass and I've pretty much alternated between flats and rounds on it every few months since I got it several years ago.

I've done recordings with it on days where I've changed the strings where I record with one type of strings then record the same parts with the other type so I can compare them. But I would like to have a second P so I can do it more often without the big hassle of changing strings then re-setting up the bass, adjusting the truss rod etc. I think I'd get a deeper appreciation of the differences and how they fit in to different types of track if I was able to do a lot more recordings over a longer period of time.

ICBM

thegummy said:

I already have flatwounds on my P bass and I've pretty much alternated between flats and rounds on it every few months since I got it several years ago.

I've done recordings with it on days where I've changed the strings where I record with one type of strings then record the same parts with the other type so I can compare them. But I would like to have a second P so I can do it more often without the big hassle of changing strings then re-setting up the bass, adjusting the truss rod etc. I think I'd get a deeper appreciation of the differences and how they fit in to different types of track if I was able to do a lot more recordings over a longer period of time.

Definitely not a stupid idea. It's really the only reason to have more than one .

What you will also probably find is that one of them suits the flats more than the other, so don't be reluctant to swap them round after the first try.