How big a factor is resonance in what makes a good electric?

WiresDreamDisasters

poopot said:

dindude said:

poopot said:

Said it before will say it again…

none of it matters for shit once the drummer starts hitting his shinny bits… and no one listening cares!!!!

I really hate this lazy statement

Don’t be full of hate… life’s too short!…

I get that folk sometimes don’t like the truth but there it is… it’s not a lazy statement… dumbed down yes… but not lazy…

the fact is that when amplified an electric guitars acoustic tone is irrelevant… even more so once you whack the signal through a few pedals and turn the amps volume up…

In a live/band situation the acoustic tone is further negated once the drummer starts hitting his cymbals… the high frequency persuasive crack will instantly start to degrade anyone’s ability to hear certain frequencies… and the cymbals fundamental frequencies will cover a good chunk of the guitars fundamental frequencies… after a few songs in, no one in the band or audience will be able to tell if your guitar is made from wood or papier-mâché… let alone if it is your most resonant instrument…

now, Deirdre and Dave down the front, whether you are in the dog and duck or Wembley stadium have just come out for a bit of a dance and a good time… they care so little about your “tone” they prolly won’t even recognise what shape your guitar is…

Don’t sweat the small stuff… play your guitar as if it was your last moment on earth… harness that and your band mates, audience and everyone else will be stoked!!!!

Hopefully that’s less lazy!…

Nah fuck off. I WANT to pontificate about delays until the end of my days!

Gilly

poopot said:

dindude said:

poopot said:

Said it before will say it again…

none of it matters for shit once the drummer starts hitting his shinny bits… and no one listening cares!!!!

I really hate this lazy statement

Don’t be full of hate… life’s too short!…

I get that folk sometimes don’t like the truth but there it is… it’s not a lazy statement… dumbed down yes… but not lazy…

the fact is that when amplified an electric guitars acoustic tone is irrelevant… even more so once you whack the signal through a few pedals and turn the amps volume up…

In a live/band situation the acoustic tone is further negated once the drummer starts hitting his cymbals… the high frequency persuasive crack will instantly start to degrade anyone’s ability to hear certain frequencies… and the cymbals fundamental frequencies will cover a good chunk of the guitars fundamental frequencies… after a few songs in, no one in the band or audience will be able to tell if your guitar is made from wood or papier-mâché… let alone if it is your most resonant instrument…

now, Deirdre and Dave down the front, whether you are in the dog and duck or Wembley stadium have just come out for a bit of a dance and a good time… they care so little about your “tone” they prolly won’t even recognise what shape your guitar is…

Don’t sweat the small stuff… play your guitar as if it was your last moment on earth… harness that and your band mates, audience and everyone else will be stoked!!!!

Hopefully that’s less lazy!…

I agree with this but not everyone plays gigs and even those that do probably only do it for a small percentage of the time they play guitar.

The rest of the time spent at home practicing I can tell the difference between a guitar that is resonant acoustically when it’s plugged in and that matters to me.

TeleMaster

guitarjack66 said:

TeleMaster said:

I always think of the silly tonewood debate when listening to Prince play that plastic see through symbol guitar of his. He always sounds immense, and it just puts the whole thing into perspective for me. 

If Prince was so good,why did he make such crap songs? 

Yea Purple Rain. Fucking shite.

WezV

Differnt perspective, ignoring wood/material for a moment

I just gave a guy his vintera strat back this evening.

He brought it a few months ago and didn't really like it.  He'd pretty much convinced himself it was shit because of a Pau Ferro board and stuff he had read online.

It needed a a bit of fretwork..  just a slight level of the higher frets and a polish of all of them. Softened the fretboard edges,  Oiled the board, gave the nut a little attention,  changed the trem springs so they were parallel.  Shimmed the neck a little so grub screws on the bridge didn't need to protrude as much,  tweaked the truss rod,  adjusted the intonation and lowered the pickups a bit

I could have said none of it really matters.   None of it makes it sound better at a gig.  Sure, The strings vibrate better as there is less choking and, but thats only gonna be noticeable on a few bends high up the neck, and no punter is really going to notice it when played live.

He left with a big grin and a guitar he was really happy with.   I think that connection to the instrument matters.  Sometimes that means focusing on the details no punter will ever notice.

thegummy

poopot said:

dindude said:

poopot said:

Said it before will say it again…

none of it matters for shit once the drummer starts hitting his shinny bits… and no one listening cares!!!!

I really hate this lazy statement

Don’t be full of hate… life’s too short!…

I get that folk sometimes don’t like the truth but there it is… it’s not a lazy statement… dumbed down yes… but not lazy…

the fact is that when amplified an electric guitars acoustic tone is irrelevant… even more so once you whack the signal through a few pedals and turn the amps volume up…

In a live/band situation the acoustic tone is further negated once the drummer starts hitting his cymbals… the high frequency persuasive crack will instantly start to degrade anyone’s ability to hear certain frequencies… and the cymbals fundamental frequencies will cover a good chunk of the guitars fundamental frequencies… after a few songs in, no one in the band or audience will be able to tell if your guitar is made from wood or papier-mâché… let alone if it is your most resonant instrument…

now, Deirdre and Dave down the front, whether you are in the dog and duck or Wembley stadium have just come out for a bit of a dance and a good time… they care so little about your “tone” they prolly won’t even recognise what shape your guitar is…

Don’t sweat the small stuff… play your guitar as if it was your last moment on earth… harness that and your band mates, audience and everyone else will be stoked!!!!

Hopefully that’s less lazy!…

What if an artist was to tape their performance then make copies of they recording to pass on to others on order for them to listen in the comfort of their own homes?

SPECTRUM001

WezV said:

Differnt perspective, ignoring wood/material for a moment

I just gave a guy his vintera strat back this evening.

He brought it a few months ago and didn't really like it.  He'd pretty much convinced himself it was shit because of a Pau Ferro board and stuff he had read online.

It needed a a bit of fretwork..  just a slight level of the higher frets and a polish of all of them. Softened the fretboard edges,  Oiled the board, gave the nut a little attention,  changed the trem springs so they were parallel.  Shimmed the neck a little so grub screws on the bridge didn't need to protrude as much,  tweaked the truss rod,  adjusted the intonation and lowered the pickups a bit

I could have said none of it really matters.   None of it makes it sound better at a gig.  Sure, The strings vibrate better as there is less choking and, but thats only gonna be noticeable on a few bends high up the neck, and no punter is really going to notice it when played live.

He left with a big grin and a guitar he was really happy with.   I think that connection to the instrument matters.  Sometimes that means focusing on the details no punter will ever notice.

That sounds amazing and so nice to read.

I am yet to take a guitar for a set up and have that much love, care and attention offered.

Still young though !

bacchanalian

Philly_Q said:

TrentGuitars said:

I like them to sound characterful unplugged, I think its a psychological thing.

This.  I think if a guitar feels "alive" (stupid word, but I don't know what else to use) then it's more enjoyable to play. 

I don't know how much that translates into the amplified sound, and I don't know if there's any practical difference between "live" and "dead" guitars in a recording or gigging environment - I'm never likely to find out.

As for whether or not there are scientifically measurable differences between guitars made of different woods, or different materials generally, I honestly don't care and I don't understand why people get so worked up about it.  I just buy guitars I like.

I think this is where I am at. Not so much the tone but the feel.  If the guitar feels more 'alive' and responsive I feel I am more likely to produce a 'good' tone with it.  Maybe I will, maybe I won't but at least I think I will.

Very interesting range of responses in this thread

TeleMaster

How do we always end up slipping back into a tonewood debate? :lol

richardhomer

TeleMaster said:

How do we always end up slipping back into a tonewood debate? :lol

I think it’s just one of those things that resonates on here…

TrentGuitars

richardhomer said:

TeleMaster said:

How do we always end up slipping back into a tonewood debate? :lol

I think it’s just one of those things that resonates on here…

Or doesnt 

HAL9000

poopot said:

now, Deirdre and Dave down the front, whether you are in the dog and duck or Wembley stadium have just come out for a bit of a dance and a good time… they care so little about your “tone” they prolly won’t even recognise what shape your guitar is…

True. I was in a situation once where I was playing a red Telecaster with a maple board and the other guitarist had a red Strat with a rosewood board. A lady came up afterwards and was pleased with herself for noticing that both our guitars were the same!

Lewy

HAL9000 said:

poopot said:

now, Deirdre and Dave down the front, whether you are in the dog and duck or Wembley stadium have just come out for a bit of a dance and a good time… they care so little about your “tone” they prolly won’t even recognise what shape your guitar is…

True. I was in a situation once where I was playing a red Telecaster with a maple board and the other guitarist had a red Strat with a rosewood board. A lady came up afterwards and was pleased with herself for noticing that both our guitars were the same!

Deridre and Dave would be just as happy with some herbert in the corner doing club style singing to backing tracks. If we only did what mattered to Deirdre and Dave we may as well pack it in. Sod the pair of them. Dave is quietly a bit annoyed they turned the big telly off when the band started. Deirdre has type 2 diabetes but tells everyone it's type 1. We should care about what matters to us, not them.

poopot

WezV said:

I could have said none of it really matters.   None of it makes it sound better at a gig.  Sure, The strings vibrate better as there is less choking and, but thats only gonna be noticeable on a few bends high up the neck, and no punter is really going to notice it when played live.

Playability is a totally different thing wez… if a guitar plays well for you, you will be inspired to play it and play it well… doesn’t matter how resonant it is!!!

thegummy said:

What if an artist was to tape their performance then make copies of they recording to pass on to others on order for them to listen in the comfort of their own homes?

Ahhhh, so you’re saying what you hear on a recording is exactly what was coming out of the amp at the time the recording was made?

Interesting!

Gilly

poopot said:

WezV said:

I could have said none of it really matters.   None of it makes it sound better at a gig.  Sure, The strings vibrate better as there is less choking and, but thats only gonna be noticeable on a few bends high up the neck, and no punter is really going to notice it when played live.

Playability is a totally different thing wez… if a guitar plays well for you, you will be inspired to play it and play it well… doesn’t matter how resonant it is!!!

To you it may not but to plenty of people it does matter. A guitar can be well set up and play well but if it feels dead and lifeless it won’t inspire me to play it.

WezV

poopot said:

WezV said:

I could have said none of it really matters.   None of it makes it sound better at a gig.  Sure, The strings vibrate better as there is less choking and, but thats only gonna be noticeable on a few bends high up the neck, and no punter is really going to notice it when played live.

Playability is a totally different thing wez… if a guitar plays well for you, you will be inspired to play it and play it well… doesn’t matter how resonant it is!!!

I agree, and do agree with most of what you said,  we all need a reality check sometimes.  but I also think your argument for resonance not mattering can just as easily be applied to the nuances of playability.   

The Strat example was a decent guitar already with no faults.  It was playable and sounded fine.  It was already better set up than anything Jimi or Rory played.   As a functional instrument it could be argued I made no improvements. It was just as capable of producing music before the work as it was after.

For some, the guitar playing well will inspire them to play, others seem to prefer a guitar that puts up more of a fight.   Some don't give a shit about how the guitar resonates, other like to feel it.   Its not for me to decide which one is more inspiring for each player ... if they tell me a resonant guitar feels better to them, I'm not going to write it off.   

I'm very detail oriented with guitars, but that's because I come from the builders perspective.  I don't think most players need to be, but I'm not telling them they should ignore it altogether

poopot

Gilly said:

To you it may not but to plenty of people it does matter. A guitar can be well set up and play well but if it feels dead and lifeless it won’t inspire me to play it.

Well that’s a you issue isn’t it!.

Personally, I’ve got one guitar that plays really well, however acoustically sounds like there’s a blanket over it… it’s dull… it has a horrible metallic overtone to it… it sounds shit…

plug it into an amp tho’ and it is a beast of a guitar… a beautiful sounding thing!

WezV

FWIW, I hate basses with really resonant bodies.  I used to have one that I couldn't play for more than half an hour without feeling sick.   

Gilly

poopot said:

Gilly said:

To you it may not but to plenty of people it does matter. A guitar can be well set up and play well but if it feels dead and lifeless it won’t inspire me to play it.

Well that’s a you issue isn’t it!.

Personally, I’ve got one guitar that plays really well, however acoustically sounds like there’s a blanket over it… it’s dull… it has a horrible metallic overtone to it… it sounds shit…

plug it into an amp tho’ and it is a beast of a guitar… a beautiful sounding thing!

That was my point. What matters to you might not matter to someone else. But I’m not the one telling people that resonance doesn’t matter lol!

poopot

Gilly said:

poopot said:

Gilly said:

To you it may not but to plenty of people it does matter. A guitar can be well set up and play well but if it feels dead and lifeless it won’t inspire me to play it.

Well that’s a you issue isn’t it!.

Personally, I’ve got one guitar that plays really well, however acoustically sounds like there’s a blanket over it… it’s dull… it has a horrible metallic overtone to it… it sounds shit…

plug it into an amp tho’ and it is a beast of a guitar… a beautiful sounding thing!

That was my point. What matters to you might not matter to someone else. But I’m not the one telling people that resonance doesn’t matter lol!

I’m not telling anyone “resonance doesn’t matter”

my point is that when amplified (as an electric guitar would be) the natural resonance of the instrument counts for nothing…

you have pickups through to your amp… everything in between will affect the sound/tone/noise you hear… at anything over a whisper in volume you won’t hear how “resonant” your guitar is, you will be hearing the end product of the amplified signal…

going back to one of my own guitars… it sounds shit acoustically… but it’s not an acoustic guitar is it!… it’s made to be plugged into an amp… and that “plugging in” negates ANY acoustic response/resonance you feel/hear/perceive!…

if an electric guitar is set up well for you and is great to play… what does it matter how it sounds acoustically? Again it’s not an acoustic instrument…

Gilly

poopot said:

Gilly said:

poopot said:

Gilly said:

To you it may not but to plenty of people it does matter. A guitar can be well set up and play well but if it feels dead and lifeless it won’t inspire me to play it.

Well that’s a you issue isn’t it!.

Personally, I’ve got one guitar that plays really well, however acoustically sounds like there’s a blanket over it… it’s dull… it has a horrible metallic overtone to it… it sounds shit…

plug it into an amp tho’ and it is a beast of a guitar… a beautiful sounding thing!

That was my point. What matters to you might not matter to someone else. But I’m not the one telling people that resonance doesn’t matter lol!

I’m not telling anyone “resonance doesn’t matter”

my point is that when amplified (as an electric guitar would be) the natural resonance of the instrument counts for nothing…

you have pickups through to your amp… everything in between will affect the sound/tone/noise you hear… at anything over a whisper in volume you won’t hear how “resonant” your guitar is, you will be hearing the end product of the amplified signal…

going back to one of my own guitars… it sounds shit acoustically… but it’s not an acoustic guitar is it!… it’s made to be plugged into an amp… and that “plugging in” negates ANY acoustic response/resonance you feel/hear/perceive!…

if an electric guitar is set up well for you and is great to play… what does it matter how it sounds acoustically? Again it’s not an acoustic instrument…

All that sounds suspiciously like you’re trying to say, “resonance doesn’t matter” (for an electric guitar).