Old Aria thing tuner help

punchesjudy

I picked up an old Aria thing recently and I love it but the tuners are absolute crap... They're either too stiff or too loose. They are thankfully holding tune but I'd like to know if there are any good drop in replacements available? Or if there's any way to make the originals a bit better.. 

I don't mind drilling new holes for better tuners if needs must but thought I'd ask the forum first before going down that route. 

It be these things. 


Cheers. 

ICBM

Yes, sadly those are complete junk, and there are no direct drop-in replacements which fit. They're usually not too bad if you fully grease them though - the grooves where the keyshafts fit, the gears themselves and the hole in the plate where the post goes through. Then make sure you fit the strings well with the minimum wrap on the posts and only tune up to the note.

I'm all for making instruments properly functional and changing parts if necessary, but I'd be inclined to get them to work first - they do look quite nice on it, and if the rest is in good original condition I would at least try to keep it so.

If that fails you'll need to drill for new screw holes at the least, even if you don't want to bore out the post holes for modern diecast types.

punchesjudy

Cheers @ICBM ;I thought that might be the case. I’ll defo try just greasing them up before doing anything more drastic. They hold tune but they’re just awful to use. So damn stiff. 

BillDL

Yes, those cheap tuning heads use a hook at either side of the cog to hold the worm shaft against it.  The bottom end of the hooks are usually fitted through a slot in the base plate and then bashed (presumably on a bashing machine) on the underside of the base plate to splay them out like a shipbuilding rivet of old and hold them in place for a while, but one or both hooks usually become loose.  Usually all that holds them in place for a while is the flattened bit of metal that forms a protrusion that beds into the wood of the headstock.  They are very primitive in nature, but that means you can try some primitive remedies or repairs before looking for suitable machine heads to replace them.

You could try removing each tuner, unscrewing the cog and releasing the worm shaft, then clamping each of the hooks in turn in a small vice.  Using a small hammer and gently tapping at an angle on the bit that sticks through and has already been bashed to flatten it, you MIGHT be able to create more of a "head" on the underside of the base plate to hold the hook more firmly.  The problem with this is that it is very easy to bash it too much and the hook would end up too tight on the worm shaft.

An alternative would be to try and glue the hooks into the slots that they poke through with some kind of "glue" that dies rock hard, like "plastic metal" two-part epoxy resin.  If that sets the hook in the wrong position you can end up with one that is too loose or too tight.  I seem to recall having tried to solder the bashed ends of the hooks way back in the 80s when I had cheaper guitars with this kind of tuner.  I can't recall if it worked.

I have always used lip salve like "Chap Stick" on open tuning gears because it is sticky enough to coat the surfaces without running into screw holes in the headstock or just making a mess.  You can also have your guitar smelling like vanilla or strawberry.  You might be able to get the tuners working to an acceptable standard by smearing them up with lip salve.

I would guess that on the front of the headstock the shafts of the tuners are restrained in the centre of the hole by push-in bushings and that the holes drilled through the headstock will be smaller in diameter than that needed to install higher quality sealed diecast bodied tuners.  In this event the best way to bore out the holes to the correct diameter is using a tapered reamer or accurately using a press drill to widen the holes.  This has to be done quite carefully or else you can end up with an oval hole or an oversized one.  You would need to carefully position new tuners then drill very fine pilot holes for the screws.  Again, lip salve is good for lubricating the thread of new screws being inserted into pilot holes.

Generally the easiest way to fill old tuning head screw holes is by dipping a toothpick in white wood glue, pushing (and twisting) it into the hole, then cutting it off as flush as possible with side cutters.  Once the glue dries you can carefully slice off the bit that's left sticking out with a blade.  If the filled screw hole is going to be left visible outside the area covered by new tuning heads, you would have to disguise them with lacquer, varnish, nail varnish, a blob of supeglue, or similar.

ICBM

BillDL said:

Yes, those cheap tuning heads use a hook at either side of the cog to hold the worm shaft against it.  The bottom end of the hooks are usually fitted through a slot in the base plate and then bashed (presumably on a bashing machine) on the underside of the base plate to splay them out like a shipbuilding rivet of old and hold them in place for a while, but one or both hooks usually become loose.  Usually all that holds them in place for a while is the flattened bit of metal that forms a protrusion that beds into the wood of the headstock.  They are very primitive in nature, but that means you can try some primitive remedies or repairs before looking for suitable machine heads to replace them.

Those ones are even cruder, and the 'hooks' are simply the sides of the baseplates bent upwards through 90º - although in terms of reliability, that's actually a better method since there is nothing to come loose.

BillDL said:

I would guess that on the front of the headstock the shafts of the tuners are restrained in the centre of the hole by push-in bushings and that the holes drilled through the headstock will be smaller in diameter than that needed to install higher quality sealed diecast bodied tuners.  In this event the best way to bore out the holes to the correct diameter is using a tapered reamer or accurately using a press drill to widen the holes.

Even better, there's an excellent StewMac tool for this, which is a parallel reamer with a central guide pin which you use from the back of the headstock and which only bores out enough wood for the new tuner body to fit - it self-centres in the old hole and doesn't go right through the head... there is no need, since the threaded collar itself will fit through the old hole. It actually does a better job than boring right through at the full diameter since the smaller hole holds the collar more truly upright when the string tension is on it.

It's worth the price even for one installation - it takes all the risk and need to use a bench drill out of it, you can easily do it with a hand power drill.

https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/tools-by-job/tools-for-tuner-installation/rear-peghole-reamer

WezV

Yeah, thats my most valuable tool from stew mac.  Not the one that cost the most, but the one that saved the most errors. 

punchesjudy

Cheers guys. I'll get to greasing the tuners before I resort to anything else. 

That Stewmac tool may just be bought if the grease doesn't improve things though. I'll live with them for a while first. 

ICBM

Or you could fit any of the vintage Kluson-type heads without needing to ream the headstock, although you will still need to drill seven screw holes. They might just cover all the old holes too, possibly just about including the two outer corner ones.

Sarge

ICBM said:

Or you could fit any of the vintage Kluson-type heads without needing to ream the headstock, although you will still need to drill seven screw holes. They might just cover all the old holes too, possibly just about including the two outer corner ones.

I've just done exactly this, kluson style tuners cover all but the furthest screw hole on the high E. 

they replaced the exact same tuners, a huge improvement.