My First Experimentation with Strat Trem

Bellycaster

I've got a Strat I bought on here that is a lovely Guitar, but ever since I got it, I kidded myself I was happy with the 5 spring decked Trem set up.

The Trem was very hard to push down, but on the plus side, the Guitar played well and stayed in tune.

Other week I played Dave Hunter's (Super Amp Tech of this Parish) Strat which was set up floating with 3 springs and it was a joy to effortlessly manipulate the Trem.

So I found this video.



Found it very informative and easy to follow.

So, baby steps at first. I thought I'd just revert my Strat to 3 Springs / I \ stylee and deck that to start with just to see if it was any easier to push down the Bar. Result, it is easier and I've made sure the Bridge is deffo decked. Quite a difference in ease, still not as easy as the floating set up I experienced at Dave's though.

I had to tighten up the claw screws several turns to deck it with 3 springs, I expect this is normal?

Guitar still seems to keep tune very well, so I may go the route of attempting to float it this weekend.

May seems like shelling peas to the more experienced of you, but it was kind of "Squeaky Bum" doing this for first time.

That is all.

For now.

boogieman

Do yourself a favour and don’t put the three springs on angled.  I honestly don’t know why it’s gotten to be so popular or who started the trend off. Put them on straight, the springs then all have even tension and the tuning will be more stable. 

Bellycaster

boogieman said:

Do yourself a favour and don’t put the three springs on angled.  I honestly don’t know why it’s gotten to be so popular or who started the trend off. Put them on straight, the springs then all have even tension and the tuning will be more stable. 

Bloody Hell, NOW he tells me!

  

andy_k

We did a long thread about this again a while back, the important part is to have the screws set  to just the right height to allow movement, but not to force the plate to slide over the screws.
Some people ( including Fender ) say to have the outer 2 screws set, and to lift the inner 4 a tad ( accuracy is not included in these instructions ).
In an ideal world, the springs ( 2 or 3, depending on string guage ) should be straight, but angled springs can give a bit more tension if required, in relation to the claw. It is nice if this tension is spread out across the width of the block.
Having the trem floating, at least allows for a little tug to pull those pesky strings back into some sort of tuning, when the screws and bridge plate get a bit worn from use ( which they will ).
There is an intensely anal discussion on this subject, which I took part in, and Fender never did get back to me with their explanation on how they have it 'wrong', as revealed in the discussion.
It works well enough, if you don't expect miracles.

Bellycaster

andy_k said:

We did a long thread about this again a while back, the important part is to have the screws set  to just the right height to allow movement, but not to force the plate to slide over the screws.
Some people ( including Fender ) say to have the outer 2 screws set, and to lift the inner 4 a tad ( accuracy is not included in these instructions ).
In an ideal world, the springs ( 2 or 3, depending on string guage ) should be straight, but angled springs can give a bit more tension if required, in relation to the claw. It is nice if this tension is spread out across the width of the block.
Having the trem floating, at least allows for a little tug to pull those pesky strings back into some sort of tuning, when the screws and bridge plate get a bit worn from use ( which they will ).
There is an intensely anal discussion on this subject, which I took part in, and Fender never did get back to me with their explanation on how they have it 'wrong', as revealed in the discussion.
It works well enough, if you don't expect miracles.

I should have mentioned, it's not a 6 screw trem, it's 2 screw. I will digest the rest tomorrow though. Off to bed as I'm knacked.

sweepy

If you are into real flutter-trem goodness, then use 2 springs it gets very "conversational"

Bellycaster

sweepy said:

If you are into real flutter-trem goodness, then use 2 springs it gets very "conversational"

I have to admit to being curious, but I'm gonna stick to the 3 at first.

Bellycaster

Near the end of the vid up there, he mentions adjusting if the action is too high, but he uses the post screws to adjust. Why would he not use the screws on the saddles to adjust string height?

andy_k

I don't have any experience with Fender 2 point systems, but on my Floyds, the posts are used to adjust action, there is no adjustment for the saddles.
I'm assuming the Fender version is basically the same idea, knife edges into grooved posts, so I guess it is just easier to adjust posts, although saddles can be used as well - they are setting string radius though, so using posts is probably easier.
Bear in mind, these adjustments shouldn't be done under string tension, as that is what can damage screws and knife edges.
Also, the number of springs greatly depends on the string guage, how far the claw is screwed in, and the strength of the springs. This is also why angled springs are a thing, slightly more tension as it has to go further.
I am using 2 on a decked Floyd, with EB skinny top-heavy bottoms, 10-52. I can just about manage it, but unison bends just start to cause the bridge to lift, which is the problem you try to avoid by having the bridge decked.
It is quite literally a balancing act, but it can be nice to have it set up well and working.

ICBM

The real reason for angling the springs is because people are too lazy to hook them on to the outer claw hooks, which is difficult because you trap your fingers against the cavity wall.

There is no advantage from doing so - if you want more tension, you can just tighten the claw screws slightly.

But there is a disadvantage, which is that the angled springs have to rotate slightly at the ends as the bridge moves, and can stick out of position and stop the bridge returning perfectly to the rest point.

Bellycaster

ICBM said:

The real reason for angling the springs is because people are too lazy to hook them on to the outer claw hooks, which is difficult because you trap your fingers against the cavity wall.

There is no advantage from doing so - if you want more tension, you can just tighten the claw screws slightly.

But there is a disadvantage, which is that the angled springs have to rotate slightly at the ends as the bridge moves, and can stick out of position and stop the bridge returning perfectly to the rest point.

I re-adjusted the Springs to III Formation tonight, there was swearing involved.



Was in Wilko yesterday where I saw a set of 3 hook tools that I knew were perfect for the job, but the Yorkshireman in me thought that the £3 could be spent better elsewhere. 

I might go back and buy them for any future adjustments.

Bellycaster

I managed to follow that video, although I made an error in not seeing that I'd tuned my string to G# instead of G because I didn't read the display of the Tuner properly. *Facepalm*

Was scratching my head why things seemed off. Went back in and tuned with claw screws down another half step and then fine tuned with the proper tuners and all seems OK for now.

Had to lower the string height a little bit by using the saddle screws.

I did it this way whilst under string tension @andy_k I guess this is OK as the saddles are independent and lower them doesn't "Grind" anything?

Will experiment and see how things hold up.

ICBM

Bellycaster said:

I re-adjusted the Springs to III Formation tonight, there was swearing involved.

Was in Wilko yesterday where I saw a set of 3 hook tools that I knew were perfect for the job, but the Yorkshireman in me thought that the £3 could be spent better elsewhere. 

I might go back and buy them for any future adjustments.

You just need a small flat screwdriver. Slip the loop of the spring over it then use it to pull the spring onto the claw hook. Dead easy.

That said I usually don’t find it a problem with my fingers - the trick is to put the side ones on first so there’s more space in the middle to hold the spring.

Kittyfrisk

I use a flat screwdriver in that way too. I seem to have inadvertently stumbled on the correct way to do something by accident 
That or use needle nose pliers, except when I need them they always appear to have gone away to hibernate.

Bellycaster

ICBM said:

Bellycaster said:

I re-adjusted the Springs to III Formation tonight, there was swearing involved.

Was in Wilko yesterday where I saw a set of 3 hook tools that I knew were perfect for the job, but the Yorkshireman in me thought that the £3 could be spent better elsewhere. 

I might go back and buy them for any future adjustments.

You just need a small flat screwdriver. Slip the loop of the spring over it then use it to pull the spring onto the claw hook. Dead easy.

That said I usually don’t find it a problem with my fingers - the trick is to put the side ones on first so there’s more space in the middle to hold the spring.

I did try a small screwdriver, but it was one of those weedy Watchmaker's ones, didn't have another small one. Little bit of a wince when I did it with my hands but it's done now.

Neckwringer

Get a set of 5 RAW springs,you'll be amazed at the difference......

Bellycaster

Been a couple of weeks now and something ain't right. I followed all the instructions on the video and I have gotten great results, perfect pitch on pulling up on each string, good tuning stability. I adjusted action slightly and intonation is great.

Something ain't right, I mean, I did it with my Cack Hands FFS

Bellycaster

Necro-Bump. String change and I've now carried out my plan to go to 4 Springs on the trem. 3 was good but a little too wobbly for me. I cherish the experience of 3, but 4 is deffo more where I am comfortable.

As you were!

axisus

2 springs for the win! That's my preferred setup.

tone1

I’ve always set mine up with the plate just off decked (floating) so that when I tune down 1/2 step it decks out against the body. I also love the 3 springs “incorrectly” fitted in the angled fan pattern….cos it looks pretty and mine stays in tune perfectly….

https://i.imgur.com/pOWwoDF.jpg

axisus

tone1 said:

I’ve always set mine up with the plate just off decked (floating) so that when I tune down 1/2 step it decks out against the body. I also love the 3 springs “incorrectly” fitted in the angled fan pattern….cos it looks pretty and mine stays in tune perfectly….

https://i.imgur.com/pOWwoDF.jpg

It doesn't look pretty, it looks horrible! I literally cringe every time I see angled springs!