Lap steel/pedal steel

thebreeze

I like it.

I know very, very little musical theory - I can’t read music, don’t really know the notes on the fretboard and only really know major, minor, pentatonic scales.  I’m not bad chord wise but no Robert Fripp.  Somehow though I’m effective as a guitarist and can hold my own in a fairly proficient gigging band.  I think there are some things that I can do really well but I rely on feel all the time and vibe etc.

I’d like to play lap steel but would it be hopeless without the theory?  Is pedal steel just ridiculous to even consider?  Can they be played by just feeling out what works, rather like I’ve done with guitar?

Teyeplayer

I remember being told that the first six months of pedal steel is learning how to not sound s***, the next six are getting to grips with it. 

It’s a wonderful instrument and once you know where the chords and notes are on the neck (you will have to learn these) and have a few licks up your sleeve, you can make your band members swoon. I’d recommend it and will add: you’ll have to learn a bit of music theory to get your head round it all to begin with, but believe me it really will open doors rather than close them. 

thebreeze

Thanks @Teyeplayer, that’s encouraging.  I would put in some effort on the theory if I decided to go for it/invest etc.

more

You can buy a Perfect Nut , have a look on YouTube to see one demonstrated . It converts a normal guitar into a lap steel . It will give you the opportunity to have a go before deciding to buy a real one. It is not easy to play a lap steel . You need a lot of practice using the slide and muting strings . I think being able to play by feel and vibe would be useful. Slide guitar is popular in America, there is a lot of info and players on YouTube 

thebreeze

Thank you @more I'll look into that, seems like a sensible first move.

It's such a great sound I think and brings so much to a tune, usually the melancholy but I'm okay with that and there are sprightly moments for sure.  It was listening to Madman Across The Water that first got me hooked years ago and now I I look for it in nearly every tune trying to assess whether it could make a contribution.  It seems to be calling me 

Stuckfast

Pedal steel is bloody difficult, but I don't think it requires a great deal of theory. Unless you get into jazz you won't be playing extended chords. It's nearly all simple dyads playing thirds, fifths, sixths and so on, and the beauty of it is that practically everything transposes to any key. You certainly don't need to read notation. Pedal steel music is almost always in tab form and for good reasons.

paulnb57

thebreeze said:

Thank you @more I'll look into that, seems like a sensible first move.

It's such a great sound I think and brings so much to a tune, usually the melancholy but I'm okay with that and there are sprightly moments for sure.  It was listening to Madman Across The Water that first got me hooked years ago and now I I look for it in nearly every tune trying to assess whether it could make a contribution.  It seems to be calling me 

One of my all time favourite solos was by Paul Franklin in Dire Straits on Walk of Life live, on the On Every Street tour, superb! We went three times!

@4.47 ish

https://youtu.be/E9rjW9oqXVA

jpfamps

You need to decide what style you want to play on what instrument.

I play lap steel (in fact I was gigging on it last Weds).

My main interests are early country (eg Hank Williams) and western swing style.

These use some form of 6th tunings; I use A6 and E13 on my double neck which is a classic combination for western swing (E13 is E6 tuning with a D somewhere in it).

I have a reasonable grip of theory, and this is useful, although not essential if you have a good ear. For example knowing that you can play a Bm triad over E to give an E9 tonality is useful, however most of the progress I have made has been working out stuff from recordings.

Regardless, unlike the laws of physics, a poor knowledge of theory is not an immutable natural phenomonen........

To get a good flavour of 6th tuning here is a great, theory-free, tutorial using A6 from Eddie Rivers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rARCcW3I0K4&t=141s 

There is a also a very good couple of DVDs on this style by Cindy Cashdollar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkCNiVR-xT0&t=9s 

Plenty of players use open chords, G or D for example, but these are generally more for country / blues style, which I'm not really that into.

Regarding pedal steel guitar (I am a pedal steel owner rather than a pedal steel player), if you want to play E9 country style (and E9 really evolved to play this style and not much else), then perversely a lack of theoretical knowlege is probably less of a hinderance than playing western swing on lap steel.

Playing swing / jazz on PSG is virtually exclusively done on a 6th tuning (usually C6th), which has it's origins in lap steel 6th tunings.

From a technique perspective lap steel only requires the co-ordination of your hands (+ foot pedal if you are using a volume pedal), although you do more work with the bar than on PSG.

PSG requires co-ordination of all 4 limbs which is definitely more complex!

Another issue is cost. Quite frankly a cheap pedal steel is a complete and utter waste of time and money. It will never stay in tune and need constant maintenance. You will be lucky to find a properly useable instrument for under around £1200.

Lap steel on the other hand is a relatively inexpensive instrument, and perfectly serviceable instrument can be had for a couple of hundred quid or so.

thebreeze

@paulnb57 - thank you, I’m looking forward to checking that out, I really like Mark Knopfler/Dire Straits

@jpfamps - that’s brilliant, thank you

Mattharrier

paulnb57 said:

thebreeze said:

Thank you @more I'll look into that, seems like a sensible first move.

It's such a great sound I think and brings so much to a tune, usually the melancholy but I'm okay with that and there are sprightly moments for sure.  It was listening to Madman Across The Water that first got me hooked years ago and now I I look for it in nearly every tune trying to assess whether it could make a contribution.  It seems to be calling me 

One of my all time favourite solos was by Paul Franklin in Dire Straits on Walk of Life live, on the On Every Street tour, superb! We went three times!

@4.47 ish

https://youtu.be/E9rjW9oqXVA

That was ace to be fair.

Stuckfast

I second everything @jpfamps says, well put sir.

Dominic

Just a brilliant instrument.......I'm a country fanboy so I love it anyway
Nashville abounds with pedal steel players but obviously it's rare here 
Sarah Jory , Jerry Hogan are probably the best known English players ......I think it's hard to find a teacher and hard to learn on your own or from Youtube

Dominic

Tip ;
Check your hair,
You need a mullet to get to be any good

telehack

I am a hack at lap steel, but I use C6 (CEGACE) which had the advantage of the 3 lowest strings (CEG) being a major chord, and the 3 highest (ACE) being a minor chord. There's a song on Beggar's Banquet which I can't remember the name of, but it was pretty easy to do by ear with this tuning. 

Stuckfast

David Hartley is one of the best pedal steel players in the world and lives near Thetford. He does lessons either in person or over Zoom and is incredibly generous with his time.

icu81b4

I have a Bennett pedal steel, and with it being made in the UK is that it’s easy to source any nuts and bolts it may need as oppose to the American ones which utilise different thread sizes. 

Although having said that, I haven’t needed any just yet. 

Great instruments, Not the easiest to master. (Warning: Huge name drop) I’ve been fortunate to have worked with both Gordon Huntley and B.J. Cole. 

Stuckfast

Nice! Are all the parts for the Bennett made specially then, or does it use components from one of the US manufacturers?

icu81b4

Ron Bennett’s workshop was in the Northwest, but he’s retired now and moved to Scotland. 

He made all the components 

koneguitarist

telehack said:

I am a hack at lap steel, but I use C6 (CEGACE) which had the advantage of the 3 lowest strings (CEG) being a major chord, and the 3 highest (ACE) being a minor chord. There's a song on Beggar's Banquet which I can't remember the name of, but it was pretty easy to do by ear with this tuning. 

I used C6 tuning in my old country band on Lap steel as that’s what Junior brown used at the time. Instant country tones. Never was any good but I still used it. 

Pedal steel is completely beyond me. 

PAL

I play a little pedal steel guitar and the main thing to consider is price ! Lap steel guitars can be inexpensive but pedal steel guitars are expensive and the reason behind this is the pedal steel guitar has pedals and knee levers to raise and lower the pitch of the strings. The more you pay for a pedal steel the better the gearing on the instrument buy and inexpensive one means you may spend more time tuning than playing also you would need to invest in a good tuner like a Peterson tuner or a tuner that has a specific program for the tuning you want to use ( E9 or C6 ) don't be put off the pedal steel is a great instrument to play but as usual it's down to how much time you are willing to put into the instrument. Hope this helps.

thebreeze

It certainly does @PAL, very welcome advice, thank you.