When bandmates can't nail parts...

Keefy

roberty said:

Of all people a drummer should be able to find the downbeat. That's mad. Already been suggested but can the drummer not start on the high hat pedal first to establish the downbeat themselves?

True but the start of SoF is particularly deceptive.

Logie

@Rocker ;

Agreed if you're just jamming for fun but if you're in a band intending to go out and play live then you owe it to your audience and your bandmates to be competent and do the songs justice ( especially if you're taking money for gigs ).

I agree that life gets in the way sometimes but if it precludes you ever getting it right then maybe being in a band isn't the thing for you. 

Grangousier

Anyone else see the title of this thread and thought "oh shit, have I stumbled into a conversation my band are having about me?!"

Well, I thought "Oh, a thread about extreme BDSM." Am relieved rather than disappointed. 

RocknRollDave

The start of SOF is a bit of an ongoing struggle with drummers and me. 

Not so much because I play with poor drummers - far from it. More that, with the wedding scene, there's a lot of depping and swapping around with slightly different line-ups all the time, so one guitarist will play the intro ever so slightly differently to another, and another drummer will count it off slightly differently to another etc, and so unless you're clear about what you're doing it is very easy to confuse a very, very capable drummer by me counting it out loud in a way that doesn't match how HE counts it...if you get me.

Another issue is that, and I hope I am not talking about myself here but am aware of the fact that I probably AM, some guitarists count the intro wrong and come in on a different beat to what they thought they were counting.


Actually....yes, that's almost certainly me.

ICBM

Logie said:

Agreed if you're just jamming for fun but if you're in a band intending to go out and play live then you owe it to your audience and your bandmates to be competent and do the songs justice ( especially if you're taking money for gigs ).

Totally agreed, but that doesn’t mean you have to play it like the record - play your version of the song, using whatever parts work for you. Change it a little, or change it a lot - audiences are more likely to appreciate a different interpretation played well than yet another slightly-forced-sounding attempt to get it ‘right’.

Tribute bands excepted, obviously - although even then, many famous bands didn’t play exactly the recorded version of some of their most well-known songs, which were sometimes happy accidents in the studio.

Logie

@ICBM ;;;;

I did say in my earlier post on here that I wouldn't expect a slavish copy of the original.

What I wouldn't be happy with is what sounds like a bloke falling down the stairs clutching a box of out of tune kazoos.

If the effort is put in to get the timing right so the band doesn't sound like they just met on the way in it's all good

chromatuna

Mostly I think it is a case of inserting ‘be bothered’ into the thread title. They don’t have enough enthusiasm to do a proper job, like being in a band but don’t want to do any work.

However… there was one lovely guy I played with who remains a good friend who could not for the life of him remember stuff. Same result for the band though…

grappagreen

chromatuna said:

Mostly I think it is a case of inserting ‘be bothered’ into the thread title. They don’t have enough enthusiasm to do a proper job, like being in a band but don’t want to do any work.

Wholeheartedly agree! I can live with most of the crap associated with being in a band but plain old laziness is the one that kills me every time.. 

suitablyswell

I've had the same issue with a guitarist who couldn't not play the main riff to Ace of Spades on the 'one'. That one took some dipliomacy.

26.2

I think intros are a bit different to say, substituting a slightly easier bit in a solo that could still be exciting, in time and in keeping with the song. Intros set the song up - if you don’t get them right and sort of fumble into the song it just sounds half-assed and awful.

I would want to work on it as a band and keep at it until you couldn’t do it wrong. If it just won’t happen then drop the song. 

I’ve been there in an originals band - we had an intro where I had to come in with the drums on the one after the rhythm guitar had set up the main riff. I just couldn’t hear the one - i had no flipping idea what I was doing or even what time sig it was in. The others instantly got it but they seemed to be coming in on ‘one and a’ instead of one. If I watched the drummer I could fake it but i actually couldn’t count it off on my own. I got a recording of it from rehearsal and literally walked around with it playing thru my headphones for hours on end if I was away from a guitar. When I was at home I just worked and worked at it until it clicked. It’s never happened before or since - somehow that song intro just wouldn’t click with my ‘counting brain’. Really weird. Even if I hear the song now I don’t really ‘hear’ the one - but I can sort of mechanically do it because of the work I did. 

Danny1969

I think SOF confuses people because the guitar riff comes in on the 4 and the drummer thinks it's the 1. So one way around this for the drummer to just stick one extra beat in before coming in , make the last bar of the riff 5 beats instead of 4 and then come in. That should get them on the right down beat.

On the whole though, much as you have to be off a certain standard to command decent money I think personality goes a long way and there are a lot of people I enjoy working with who maybe aren't the most practiced or committed ... but are a bloody good laugh to be around 

LastMantra

ICBM said:

Logie said:

Agreed if you're just jamming for fun but if you're in a band intending to go out and play live then you owe it to your audience and your bandmates to be competent and do the songs justice ( especially if you're taking money for gigs ).

Totally agreed, but that doesn’t mean you have to play it like the record - play your version of the song, using whatever parts work for you. Change it a little, or change it a lot - audiences are more likely to appreciate a different interpretation played well than yet another slightly-forced-sounding attempt to get it ‘right’.

Tribute bands excepted, obviously - although even then, many famous bands didn’t play exactly the recorded version of some of their most well-known songs, which were sometimes happy accidents in the studio.

Or you could just play it properly....





  

ICBM

Logie said:

I did say in my earlier post on here that I wouldn't expect a slavish copy of the original.

What I wouldn't be happy with is what sounds like a bloke falling down the stairs clutching a box of out of tune kazoos.

If the effort is put in to get the timing right so the band doesn't sound like they just met on the way in it's all good

True! But that sort of problem is actually more common when bands try to stick too closely to the original arrangement - particularly when the original is a bit 'odd' - rather than coming up with parts that suit their natural rhythm and phrasing.

There are very few songs which can't be played slightly differently and still sound good. There are even fewer which can't be played completely differently and sound better than playing them slightly differently .