Playing vocal melodies with rhythmic chord tones like this guy

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I’ve been following this guy for a couple of years and had a patron subscription 
  I particularly like his Leppardized  covers of 80s songs and wondered what is the best way to     approach this ?

it seems like a mixture of guitar following vocal melody , rhythmic chord tones  and bits of scales and double stops.  How would someone  go about trying to do this for their own choice of cover . Eg for example a Madonna song .

I can manage to sometimes use my ear to outline the vocals , but this guy  even when he’s not following the exact vocal outline ,can imply the vocal line by this staccato picking between 2 or 3 strings , which gives it that characteristic leppardized  feel I love . Is the secret to it finding closely grouped chord tones / arpeggios  that work well against the vocal melody ,or mixing the vocal melody in with chord tones/arpeggios . I notice in some parts of songs he uses diads/double stops  to thicken out a melody in a chorus . The guy is very clever at doing this . Is it something one could learn and where would one start .  

Two of my fave ones below





Any suggestions how to start for someone with basic music theory knowledge 
I’m currently practicing lots of different stuff too (slash ) but could possibly afford a coup,e of lessons in the new year when can sort my practice times out (I’ve recently switched to night practice but would sooner get up early for my main practice so I could enjoy stuff like this an hour or two at night )

thanks for any suggestions 

best regards and seasons greetings Paul 

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Comments

  • Staccato picking video 1 about 0:56 
                                 Video 2 straight in at the beginning and the verse 

    really like this . I do have the tabs so could analyse it if I knew what path to follow and what to look for .  I suppose keyboard parts could play a part too 
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  • sweepysweepy Frets: 4159
    edited December 2021
    Died in your arms tonight is Cutting Crew btw , great guitar on the original 
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  • sweepy said:
    Died in your arms tonight is Cutting Crew btw , great guitar on the original 
    Didn’t he pass away?  So many 80s guys have , the outfield lost two as well 
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8592
    He’s strumming partial chords, and adding melodic notes. There’s something similar in Summer of 69 where the guitar play a D chord on the top three strings, lifts his third finger from the 2nd fret on the E string to play E, replaces that finger, then uses his 4th finger on the 3rd fret of the E string to play the note G.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8592
    Listen here at 0:50 https://youtu.be/eFjjO_lhf9c
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • Thanks for your input Roland I hear what your saying at 0:50  although it is like you said more strummy  with added or possibly suspended notes , but strummy instead of staccato picking  which the leppardized treatment has ,that works so well with the combination of compression, chorus and delay .  Bryan songs are ripe for this treatment given his producer on his 90s album 
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  • sev112sev112 Frets: 2739
    Don’t know the original guitar lines - is that what he is playing or are you saying this is an original piece of guitar music over the original ?

    Sounds very similar to how Neal Schon plays for Journey
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  • I think I also need to pay attention to what the bass is doing in some songs ,in fact all the instruments . I’ve just had a quick experiment on a song and its great when you get a feel for the rhythm in the picking .  Now all I need to do is work on my caged major and minor scales plus all the arpeggios /chord tones on the neck , I’m just hunting and searching at the moment . Certain songs lend theirselves well to it.

    please I would welcome any more input on this style and how to tackle it .

    meanwhile another example I love by a different guitarist in Finland on a Chaka Kahn song

    This one does not have the staccato leppardized approach but I love it ,I think it would work well actually like that too,but is outstanding as it is 

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  • sev112 said:
    Don’t know the original guitar lines - is that what he is playing or are you saying this is an original piece of guitar music over the original ?

    Sounds very similar to how Neal Schon plays for Journey
    Ahh I like journey and Have the Escape album , yes  , yes. The guy in these videos makes different guitar arrangements of the songs to play over the top, so does incorporate some elements of all instruments while playing with that Def Leppard kind of feel .

    I really like it and it really gives some songs a great lift .

    thanks for weighing in , I,ll check out some journey in a minute and see what neils doing 
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  • hollywoodroxhollywoodrox Frets: 4085
    edited December 2021
    I found this cover of a vocal melody of who’s crying now ,awesome job 
      But I would like to see that rhythmic staccato picking underneath it too, that would really make it pop 

    https://youtu.be/CDB3QTa_TDw
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  • Will have to put this on my list to work on , it would be great with that staccato picked rhythm outlining it  It’s got to be in the chord tones /scale 
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  • Savage garden - to the moon and back would be a great one to do like this too 
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  • KebabkidKebabkid Frets: 3301
    It's typical of the AOR players like Schon, Dann Huff, Andy Timmons and Lukather and the Def Leppard guys are good at coming up with those parts.

    I liked his arrangements - ta
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  • CaseOfAceCaseOfAce Frets: 1307
    Sounds to me like he's using diads and triads and then adding sus 2 and 4s on top... following the chord changes of the song rather than the vocal melody? 
    So if it were me - work out the chords and then go from there..
    I can definitely tell what you mean by that Def Leppard sound - those stacatto notes jumping out  with that gain / chorus sound is very Phil Collen.
    ...she's got Dickie Davies eyes...
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  • Kebabkid said:
    It's typical of the AOR players like Schon, Dann Huff, Andy Timmons and Lukather and the Def Leppard guys are good at coming up with those parts.

    I liked his arrangements - ta
    Hi ,thanks for that really appreciate your input ,
    I love  those players .

    I just had a go at who’s crying now , well  who’s crying now was playing in my head and I was playing along in that manner to it mainly by feel of pentatonic type shapes and an idea of the vocal melody and it worked , not as good as the original I posted but it’s a start  the rhythmic feel was there , just need to work on note choices  and finding all the chord tones /scales .

    I think by alternating a bit of that rhythmic staccato , a bit of vocal melody ,and some double stop harmonies  so it doesn’t get too repetitive ,it might be possible for me to do.

    I really need to get my main morning practice back after waking up so I can work on this stuff for an hour each night along with caged /arpeggios etc .

    been working on Slash stuff all year just getting up to speed on certain guns n roses parts of solos 
    It takes me so long these days , but I can say after a couple hundred days I’m playing stuff I never dreamed of .  The hard stuff is now refining it ,cleaning it up at speed . 

    Working on this staccato ,vocal ,chord tone stuff covers etc will give me an alternate outlook too
      


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  • CaseOfAce said:
    Sounds to me like he's using diads and triads and then adding sus 2 and 4s on top... following the chord changes of the song rather than the vocal melody? 
    So if it were me - work out the chords and then go from there..
    I can definitely tell what you mean by that Def Leppard sound - those stacatto notes jumping out  with that gain / chorus sound is very Phil Collen.
    On the nose ,thank you,thank you thank you. That has really helped me especially the  sus chords bit as I recall someone mentioning that .

    I have currently been setting myself out some charts to learn all the triad chords along the neck
    especially favouring  the e b g  and b g d string sets  so I think that will be a good grounding for what I want to do . 

    Really appreciate your input. Thank you again  it has been a huge help.



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  • CaseOfAceCaseOfAce Frets: 1307
    edited December 2021
    First chorus of what he's doing above in Waiting on a Star...
    nice combination of heavily muted single lines and power chords...

    -----------------------------------------|----------------------------|-----------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------
    -----------------------------------------|----------------------------|-----------------------|----------------------------------------------------9-9-9-8-
    -------------------------5-3------------|----------------------------|-----------------------|----------------------------------------------------8-8-8-8-
    ---------1-0------6----5-3------------|----8--------8--------8---|-8-------8--------8--|-8----------8--------8---8--------8--------8----8-8-8-8-
    -1-3-1------3----6----3-1------------|-------6-------6----------|-----6-------6--------|-----8---------8-------------8--------8--------------------
    --------------------4----------3-4-6---|-4-------4-------4--------|-------4-------4-----|----------6--------6-------------6--------6-----------------

    Ab / C / Bb / G / Ab add 9 / Bb x 2 - and then end with an Ebsus 4 -> Eb triad...

    notice that lovely Andy Summer's type Ab add 9 (heavily muted) staccato...

    Nice.

    ...she's got Dickie Davies eyes...
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  • Thank you , Andy summers is great, his guitar on So lonely and regatta de blanc tracks are favourites too 
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  • EricTheWearyEricTheWeary Frets: 16255
    edited December 2021
    I was watching the recent Rick Beato interview with Tommy Emmanuel last night. I appreciate that this is a different thing but Tommy's stock in trade is doing guitar arrangements of vocal melodies. Certainly his number one tip would be learn the melody first. Once you can play that you can look at harmonies around it. Very interesting that he can add jazz harmony or percussive noise or fast fills but the basic vocal melody line is still clear in what he is playing.  His number two tip would be timing - get the groove. 
    [ I should probably watch the video in the OP to see if this is at all the same thing!] 

    Edit: watching the first video and he is not doing what I thought you meant. Oh well. Tim Pierce is good on these kind of things if you follow his YT channel as his session career tended be about constructing parts.   
    Tipton is a small fishing village in the borough of Sandwell. 
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  • I was watching the recent Rick Beato interview with Tommy Emmanuel last night. I appreciate that this is a different thing but Tommy's stock in trade is doing guitar arrangements of vocal melodies. Certainly his number one tip would be learn the melody first. Once you can play that you can look at harmonies around it. Very interesting that he can add jazz harmony or percussive noise or fast fills but the basic vocal melody line is still clear in what he is playing.  His number two tip would be timing - get the groove. 
    [ I should probably watch the video in the OP to see if this is at all the same thing!] 

    Edit: watching the first video and he is not doing what I thought you meant. Oh well. Tim Pierce is good on these kind of things if you follow his YT channel as his session career tended be about constructing parts.   
    Some of what you say applies ,there are bits where you can hear the melody . I was quite interested in your perspective as your lessons are quite impressive on YouTube . Thank you for your input it is gratefully received . I think the rhythm is quite important in this ,it sounds good with quick staccato picking 
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