What is your process?

ThePrettyDamned

I have an itch to record some ideas I have. They're not musically complex, probably a drum loop, synth, guitar, bass and maybe spoken vocal for ideas.

I have garageband on the ipad which is fine for this, but I was wondering what your process is for creating music. Specifically, I have some neat ideas, but struggle with moving between them (say, verse and chorus, or verse and prechorus).

I know a chorus or whatever is not necessary, but I'm interested to hear how people approach songwriting I suppose. 

Cirrus

On my own, it tends to be playing on guitar and coming up with a riff, lyric, section etc and that very quickly inspiring enough to have a feeling of what the song's about - at least in terms of style, emotion, vibe, etc.

Then I try to turn it into a structured arrangement so that I can play from start to end and put lyrics to it. It's ok if certain sections feel a bit like scaffolding - once I can get from the start to end, I can record at least an acoustic and vocal version in my DAW and start to flesh out drums. Drums usually come first, because the melodies and the way I strum chords are signposts for what I'm wanting the drums to do, and the drums inform what the bass does. Once they're in place, there's a good canvas for whatever other instruments would enhance the tune.

Obviously there's exceptions - I might have a guitar solo idea, a bassline or a drum loop as the core of the song, and that'll change how it's approached.

In a collaborative context, with a band etc to bounce ideas off? All bets are off, because ideas can be bouncing all over the place.

poopot

Just about to release an album with @bezzer and @IMC1980 so I can try to explain the process for this one…

I start with a riff, bass drums or guitar riff doesn’t matter…I’ll then flesh that idea out into a verse or chorus, only has to be 8bars for example and cut and paste chunks to get the form for the song… 

so now I have (for example) intro-verse1-chorus-verse2-solo-chorus out…

once the basic structure is complete, onto a bit of production… re record all the parts, make the intro come in with a bang, cut back the first verse, go big for a chorus, more involved for second verse etc etc… I also start to think about the mix a bit… automate instruments out wider for choruses etc…

once I have the finished track/form it’s shipped over to @bezzer to add full orchestra/extra guitars etc… can also have changes made at this point… cut bits out/add other bits… he sends his edits back and I create a new version incorporating his stuff… this then gets sent to @IMC1980 who mashes his keyboard in a random way and manages to come up with some fantastic lyrics… he records eleventy billion vocal tracks and sends them back to me… I download them and swear for a bit before mixing his vocal into the project…

final mix then takes place… 

it’s worked really well this way… we have the album finished… everything is mixed and mastered so it sounds balanced and consistent…

we just need to decide on track order and then give it one last remaster so it all works in that order, release it, bask in the glory and buy big mansions!…

Https://www.dirtysnakemouth.com if you want to hear the singles we've released so far…

ThePrettyDamned

Great answers.

I'm recording an idea at the moment and I can hear in my head what I want it to sound like, but I'm struggling on moving it anywhere. It's something I've struggled with in the past - abrupt changes from one section to another, rather than feeling like a cohesive piece. Although maybe that's just the music I listen to... 

poopot

Get it down first…

Block A - Block B - Block C… etc

then get the blocks to flow into each other…

thecolourbox

I always enjoy reading these things so hopefully we get loads of different comments on this to show the ways people work.

What I struggle with, is remembering ideas. I come up with most of my ideas in my head, not at an instrument, so what seems like a great idea at the time of me playing it through in my head, is sometimes completely gone by the time I can write it down. That's quite frustrating, but even when I do manage to write it down, I forget what ideas I've got to choose from when it comes to putting stuff together! On the other hand, that does allow me to foolishly think that I've written some amazing pieces and they are lost to the ether of memory loss, rather than face up to the shite I do actually make

TTony

I've been doing some of this myself during lockdown.  I'd been meaning to do it for years, but never got around to actually doing anything.

Everybody works differently, so the following might be helpful for you - or it might not!


The hardest bit is starting.      Plug in, hit record, see what  happens.  Listen back, decide what you'd do differently, record again and listen back again. 

Sometimes I'll start with a simple riff, sometimes with a chord progression and vague melody-idea.

Get used to editing - you don't have to play the whole thing through perfectly in one go.     Also get used to managing multiple takes of the same part of a track - then cut and merge the best bits of the different takes into the "final" track.

Get the structure in place with whatever instrument you prefer to play (so, probably, guitar), but do it with a metronome / click track too.  Yes, you can  correct variable timing later, but it's a lot easier recording multiple tracks if they're all played to the same bpm.

If it's not working for whatever reason, even if it's not working on the Sunday afternoon that you specifically set aside to do it, just walk away.  You can't force it, and trying to force it will make it not fun.  It's got to be fun.

Keep plenty of backups of your working files (ie different versions), and name them in some meaningful way.  You don't want to get to a stage where you think that the version you created 3 week ago was much better than what you've got now, but that version has been overwritten or deleted, or it takes you so long to find it that you give up.


I found the iPad & garageband was great - to a point.  For capturing simple ideas, guitar riffs, using the built-in instruments, all good.  But I soon found the limitations  of it.  There are many many options for interfaces into "proper" laptops/PCs, and numerous DAWs to run on those proper platforms. 

For me, Presonus and Studio 1 worked fine, hardware is USB and works with Mac/PC and there's a simple and inexpensive upgrade path for the DAW if/when you want more functionality.

Springywheel

If I feel i have what's a good riff idea i'll create a loop in FL Studio, possibly double track and noodle over the top. Then i'll save the file, and come back to it at a later point. If the idea still appeals i'll develop it further, creating variations of the same riff, a bridge, and some way of bringing the track to a climax.

Also when double/triple tracking, the other guitar takes are usually transposed and played elsewhere on the neck using various inversions. I usually leave the intro till last as it's normally when close to finishing that i have a better idea of how to start a song.

Sometimes I won't plan things out so much, and the recording process will go hand in hand with the writing; basically 'making shit up as you go along'!

The guitar used informs the writing - it's hard for me to write balls out heavy metal on a fender jaguar - though that same guitar can be used to add a new dimension to a heavy track recorded predominantly with a les paul.

After the recording, the mixing - this is a little tricky for me but i find a lot of headaches can be spared by getting the arrangement right.

Sometimes i'll treat the DAW as an instrument and go a little crazy with live automation from a midi controller - i got this idea from dub records, though i'm not very good at multitasking! 

I'm finding it useful as of late to write the bare bones of a track on bass, then padding things out later with guitars and synths. 

thecolourbox

Watching the new Beatles doc and seeing Paul thrashing out new ideas while using his bass as a sort of rhythm guitar (rather than having to formulate full chords as you go etc) is giving me huge gas for a cheap short scale bass, although I could just play single note kind on guitar I suppose.

But seeing Springywheel mention that is interesting that it does work for others as well

Springywheel

thecolourbox said:

Watching the new Beatles doc and seeing Paul thrashing out new ideas while using his bass as a sort of rhythm guitar (rather than having to formulate full chords as you go etc) is giving me huge gas for a cheap short scale bass, although I could just play single note kind on guitar I suppose.

But seeing Springywheel mention that is interesting that it does work for others as well

Check out the Squire Classic Vibe series - amazing value for money. I have the precision bass but for short scale there's the mustang. 

Snap

Very often I simply play something on an instrument and see where it goes. Other method is I will create a whole section, might be a vibe, and intro, or a riff, and then build other sections on to it. Mostly though I improvise and take it from there. 

As a result, I end up with lots of recordings that are a minute or two long, and remain unfinished! But, it does mean I've got quite a bank of ideas. Not unusual to come back to something a year or more later, and finish. 

Habanero

I'm fairly new to this, and am currently working on an entry for the Composition Challenge (Horror).

Once I had the idea, I wrote the lyrics quite quickly, and it then suggested the style of the music. The lyrics directly defined the arrangement track, and having decided on a tempo and key, I've used this to set the drum track and the start of the bass track, which will be done using midi as I can't play real bass.

The best bit will then be deciding which guitar and pedals to use, and then record those parts. Next will be recording the lyrics, mixing/mastering, and finally book the world tour and cancel it due to the next wave of the pandemic.

andy_k

I have an expanding library of ideas, in various stages of production, I like to build up a few minutes worth of an idea and get a rough mix for it, which just lets me move on to others. I try and listen back to these things, and am often pleasantly surprised how well they work, but I get stuck when it comes to finishing them.
Lyrics and songwriting are not my strength, so I just try to keep the idea bank filling up, and hopefully things will come to me to flesh them out. 
I sometimes do prefer instrumentals anyway, so I'm happy with how it is going, who needs a mansion.

Placidcasual79

I have yet to make the jump to a DAW - so still use an 8 track. I have a room set up with (e)Drums, bass, guitars, keyboard and synth set up - I record as soon as I get something I like because I've lost sooooo much over the years by not remembering it.... I'll spend time noodling on any of the above instruments and if I get an idea I like I'll record a minute or two of it - then I'll try and accompany that on another instrument - I'll record the second instrument for longer than the first idea - so I'll have a baseline say.... record drums underneath it - but record extra drums - then I'll go back to the bass and try something new after the original baseline with the existing drum pattern - might try this with several instruments - until eventually something that fits together starts to build up..... 

This is probably a ridiculous idea - but its as close as I can get to (ahem) 'jamming' with myself.

Also when I write on any of guitar, bass, drums or keys I try to write more than one part straight off.....if I struggle I'll sometimes hUm the melody of the line I am playing stop playing then try and hum another melody then transpose it onto guitar/keys or bass.... 

spark240

ThePrettyDamned said:

Great answers.

I'm recording an idea at the moment and I can hear in my head what I want it to sound like, but I'm struggling on moving it anywhere. It's something I've struggled with in the past - abrupt changes from one section to another, rather than feeling like a cohesive piece. Although maybe that's just the music I listen to... 

A colab can help here...bounce it of someone else and see what happens  

Rocker

As someone who only wrote a few songs and a few tunes, my approach is to write down the story you want the lyrics to tell. From there write the lyrics and then the music. It may be necessary to expand or compress the lyrics to fit the tune, if the song can be sung unaccompanied, you are on the right track. 

For tunes, it depends on what you want to write: a waltz, jig or whatever. Picking notes from chords usually suggests something which might work. Write down anything you come up with as memory is fleeting. 

andy_k

I like to try and build on the most basic of ideas. I have something right now, a phone recording of one of my rarely used amps, which had an amazing tone. Crappy recording though, but I played some interesting ideas. Importing this into Reaper and trying to extract a few loops and sections, get a tempo sorted, add some drums - with blank spaces for some gaps to fill.
I usually put some very rudimentary midi bass vst on there, and then get a few minutes worth bounced as a rough mix.
Quite surprising how little is needed to get an idea fleshed out, with a re recording of the original idea being used to develop it further.

poopot

Well as said, myself @Bezzer and @IMC1980 have just finished an album… it’s out on the 31st…

we’re all suffering a bit of “post creative depression” tbh…

so I’ve started the second album… track 1 written and sent off to them this morning

Rocker

Fair dues to you guys, @poopot, @Bezzer, @IMC1980.  ;

poopot

Rocker said:

Fair dues to you guys, @poopot, @Bezzer, @IMC1980.  ;;

Cheers dude!… 
here if you fancy it: 
https://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/219087/nye#latest

midiman1962

My process working alone is to start with a subject matter and lyric rather than a riff or melody.
in the past I never really had issues with the music side of things but had trouble coming up with “words”.
I need at least 1 verse and 1 chorus to get going.
The subject matter will suggest a song style.
Then I will develop further in Cubase usually.