Extension cab/speaker Mixing - Mesa Black Shadow, Vintage 30, ET65

What's Hot
jellybellyjellybelly Frets: 734
edited January 2022 in Amps
Many happys everyone! Have just received a mint Mesa Express 5:50 1x12 combo as a Christmas present that I got off eBay for just over £500 - absolute bargain, no doubt. Incredibly flexible amp, only just scratching the surface of what it can do. 

Anyway, got some money set aside for a matching cab so I can do some speaker mixing with it. I like the stock Black Shadow Celestion jobbie a lot, just a little plain sounding and clean on its own. 

Conventional/Mesa's own wisdom would suggest a Vintage 30, maybe in a closed back cab.

Best that I've tried (using another combo cabinet) is a WGS ET65, gave it much chunkier mids and a more aggressive distortion without dominating or sacrificing the clean tone. Didn't care for the Creamback 65 I tried with it. 

Any other recommendations to go with an open-backed mc90 Black Shadow? Is the V30 the obvious one to try? Are Mesa cabinets worth it? Would be looking at a widebody or lonestar cab I would guess. 
0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom

Comments

  • jellybellyjellybelly Frets: 734
    edited January 2022
    Went ahead and answered my own question. Interested in others thoughts, hopefully this will help someone else at some point. 

    Picked up a Mesa 112 open back cab and tried the following speakers in all combinations with the Express. Brief thoughts on each individual speaker plus any combos that worked well. 

    Mesa/Celestion Black Shadow MC90 T3989B -
    Relatively dark, loads of low end and lower mids, nice treble, very thick sounding, wasn't the best for articulation with a light crunch tone. Smooth lead sounds with lots of heft. 
    (Also have the non-B version of this speaker which came with the cab, that was a bit brighter - might just be a rebadged g12-80?)

    Mesa/Celestion Vintage 30 (UK made)
    Sledgehammer of midrange. Comparing directly with other speakers, it had no articulation to speak of. Unless the gain was on it sounded horrible but with some gain there was a great lead sound that was difficult to change. Good in combination, less so on its own. 
    (Compared directly to a Chinese V30. Was better/less clangy/tighter and bigger lows, though it's quite subtle)

    Celestion A Type
    Sounded tiny next to the others. Much lower volume, very tame highs and lows. Sounded best with a really scooped clean sound. Some nice fluid leads too. Needs the right amp, would be great at taming a Hot Rod Deluxe maybe. 

    WGS ET65
    Like a mix of the best bits of the two Mesa/Celestions, but more articulation in the top end, not too prominent in the midrange but a great overdriven tone. Cleans really nice. Volume level lower than some of the others. Not too much or little of anything, including 'character'. 

    Eminence Cannabis Rex
    Never noticed how flat (EQ wise) this speaker was, lots of everything, really, but seems to cut off the high highs and low lows. So focused. Surprisingly not as dark as either the MC90 nor the A-Type. Loudest speaker here in overall volume, but due to a narrower frequency range the MC90 sounded bigger regardless. 

    Mesa MC90/V30 combo
    Jaw dropping for rock - loads of everything including a really tight low end and not too much treble bite

    MC90/ET65
    Nice - id need to road test it though as might be too polite in the treble/upper mids to have any cut. Bet they'd record well together. 

    V30/et65
    Great rock sound, more subdued in the bass and focused than the MC90/V30 together. A bassy amp would prefer this combo. 

    Still not decided what I'm going to put where yet. The ET65 might end up being the combo speaker, and the two Celestion/Mesas together in a 2x12. Don't think the EMI CRex nor the A-Type really suited this amp, to be fair. The A-Type does a great job in my MJW bassman-y thing on its own. The CRex might go back in its box for a bit...


    Edit: Dishonourable mention for the G12m-65 Creamback (UK made). Hated it. Lots of undefined midrange, no clarity or definition but a zingy top end. Not much volume either. I like greenbacks, and this is no greenback replacement. 

    0reaction image LOL 1reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • GoFishGoFish Frets: 1345
    How are you finding the amp now? Have you done any more speaker changes? Without knowing much about speakers or the music / volumes you play at, I'm a little surprised by how poorly the creamback performed. They seem to be well regarded and nominally a step up from greens. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the amp itself. What it's capable of and used for etc. Mesa combos are so well put together, but I always feel that I'd only use a small portion of its features.
    Ten years too late and still getting it wrong
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • jellybellyjellybelly Frets: 734
    edited January 2022
    Have been back and forth with a few combinations but keeping the stock Mesa/Celestion Black Shadow in the amp for now, with the UK Vintage 30 in an extension cabinet. 

    As with everything guitar, it's all subjective  I've found that speakers generally fall into two categories for me. Full range and dynamic, or midrangey and 'flavoured'. The Black Shadow, ET65, and the Tayden Jensen copy I have fall into the former category, the Creamback and Vintage 30 the latter. I couldn't imagine ONLY using one of those midrangey speakers, but plenty of people do. 

    Exceptions exist. The basic Chinese Celestion Greenback is a fantastic speaker that's full sounding and very flavoured!

    Re the Mesa, it's a fantastic and robust amp. I like both crunch and clean voices, lots of overlap, and the EQ is really sensitive. Some reviews seem to suggest it doesn't sound good but I think it's the really wide range of the controls that catch some out. This isn't like a vintage marshall where you're just tailoring its basic sound. Loads of options!

    The lead channel is less flexible, not big on the 'blues' mode but found some nice tones where I've managed to get the master volume up (in 5w mode). The burn mode gets some stick but again I think that's expectations - it's neither a smooth Mark series lead sound nor an ultra aggressive dual rec tone, though there are shades of both. I basically set it up so it sounds like a really good Rat, which it totally cops. 

    The contour thing is a bit gimmicky, I stick it on at 10 o'clock and leave it there, unless I'm going for something more extreme. The reverb is awesome. 

    Bit noisy without quiet valves in V1 and V2 but a really high quality amp. I'll not be getting rid of it!
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Re the Creamback, it's my second attempt to like it because on paper it should be spot on. I absolutely don't get it at all. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71950
    Mesa/Celestion Vintage 30 (UK made)
    Sledgehammer of midrange. Comparing directly with other speakers, it had no articulation to speak of. Unless the gain was on it sounded horrible but with some gain there was a great lead sound that was difficult to change. Good in combination, less so on its own. 
    (Compared directly to a Chinese V30. Was better/less clangy/tighter and bigger lows, though it's quite subtle)
    Was the UK V30 older and more broken-in than the Chinese one?

    Edit: Dishonourable mention for the G12m-65 Creamback (UK made). Hated it. Lots of undefined midrange, no clarity or definition but a zingy top end. Not much volume either. I like greenbacks, and this is no greenback replacement. 
    Likewise, was it broken in? That sounds like a good description of one that isn't.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBM said:
    Mesa/Celestion Vintage 30 (UK made)
    Sledgehammer of midrange. Comparing directly with other speakers, it had no articulation to speak of. Unless the gain was on it sounded horrible but with some gain there was a great lead sound that was difficult to change. Good in combination, less so on its own. 
    (Compared directly to a Chinese V30. Was better/less clangy/tighter and bigger lows, though it's quite subtle)
    Was the UK V30 older and more broken-in than the Chinese one?

    Edit: Dishonourable mention for the G12m-65 Creamback (UK made). Hated it. Lots of undefined midrange, no clarity or definition but a zingy top end. Not much volume either. I like greenbacks, and this is no greenback replacement. 
    Likewise, was it broken in? That sounds like a good description of one that isn't.
    The UK V30 is certainly older, though the Chinese one had been gigged, it could just be that - like I say, the difference was fairly subtle. 

    The Creamback has also been gigged (though not by me) and being a UK one is likely as old as a Creamback can be. It might not have been fully broken in but you can generally tell if you'll like a speaker or not before it's broken in - this speaker just got gritty really quick and didn't have the dynamic range I'd have expected. I guess it's just not for me!
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    Well this thread has made me want a WGS et 65.

    Nice work op, wish there was more of this sort of thing on the forum.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
Sign In or Register to comment.