Blackstar HT5 - can I go from a preamp directly into the FX return?

Mr_Claw

HI all,

I have a HT5 at home. The preamp in the amp is somewhat underwhelming. Can I go directly into the power amp via the FX return if I use a proper preamp? I have an Effectrode Blackbird - that should do it.

I know you can do this on some amps with an FX loop, but does the Blackstar FX loop work like that?

Ta,

C

ICBM

Yes. If I remember correctly, you will need to put a dummy plug (or just a spare cable) in the input jack, or it won’t work - thus amp has an ‘auto standby’ feature which operates via a switch in the jack.

Mr_Claw

ICBM said:

Yes. If I remember correctly, you will need to put a dummy plug (or just a spare cable) in the input jack, or it won’t work - thus amp has an ‘auto standby’ feature which operates via a switch in the jack.

Sweet. Thanks. I'll give it a go then...

ecc83

IC, the auto standby feature only appeared on the HT-20 and higher numbers, also the Series Ones. They may have fitted it to later marks of the Five, I am long away from it.

Dave.

impmann

Yup you need a shorting jack in the input socket to release the protection circuit. 

Just solder a link between hot and ground in a regular quarter inch jack plug and that will do the job.

Grumpyrocker

I just use a 6.5mm-3.5mm jack adapter in mine and it works fine. 

ecc83

impmann said:

Yup you need a shorting jack in the input socket to release the protection circuit. 

Just solder a link between hot and ground in a regular quarter inch jack plug and that will do the job.

Unless they have changed the circuit Impmann you don't need a shorted* jack plug? Both the input and speaker jacks use the switches to effect the OP stage bias off. I used to use a headphone adaptor.

*of course, the short will keep the pre amp quiet but since you are not using it?

Ah! You beat me to the qwerty Grumps.

Dave.

ICBM

You don’t need a shorted plug, because noise from the preamp isn’t an issue when you’ve bypassed it via the FX return. To be really sure there’s no possibility of self-oscillation - which I doubt this amp is prone to anyway - just turn the gain and volume controls to zero.

Danny1969

Another thing to try is a boost in the loop. I did hundreds of gigs with an HT5 with a Boss GT10 in the loop. All I was using the GT10 for was the tuner and to boost the signal before it hit the power amp. This made a big difference to the sound ... to the extent there was one gig where I forgot to bring the Boss and the rest of the band was asking what was up with my guitar sound ! 
I was also amazed at the difference between the normal HT5 combo and my head into a large 1 x 12 Celestion G75 lead cab. The combo sounds small and boxy, mine sounded much bigger and mine is loud enough to gig unmiced into my cab. 

ICBM

Danny1969 said:

I was also amazed at the difference between the normal HT5 combo and my head into a large 1 x 12 Celestion G75 lead cab. The combo sounds small and boxy, mine sounded much bigger and mine is loud enough to gig unmiced into my cab. 

@ecc83 will be quite familiar with my constant moaning about Blackstar’s choice of speakers .

I once tried an ID60 head into a Marshall 4x12” with G12T-75s too, it sounded almost as loud as a 50W Marshall valve head into the same cab, and very good - just missing a tiny bit of the presence and sheer aggression of the Marshall, but very close really.

ecc83

Danny, I was told by the designer of the HT-20 that it benefits greatly from a ~10dB boost in the loop at around 2-3kHz.

And yes, the HT-5 CAN kick some A into a better speaker as it is really a 10W amp when pushed. That's 110dB SPL into a V30 say at a mtr. MUCH more than you should harken unto for more than 5 minutes!

Dave.

Grumpyrocker

I run my HT5 Mk2 into a. HB V30 212 and it sounds great. I do often put an EQ in the loop - definitely benefits from it. 

ecc83

ICBM said:

Danny1969 said:

I was also amazed at the difference between the normal HT5 combo and my head into a large 1 x 12 Celestion G75 lead cab. The combo sounds small and boxy, mine sounded much bigger and mine is loud enough to gig unmiced into my cab. 

@ecc83 will be quite familiar with my constant moaning about Blackstar’s choice of speakers .

I once tried an ID60 head into a Marshall 4x12” with G12T-75s too, it sounded almost as loud as a 50W Marshall valve head into the same cab, and very good - just missing a tiny bit of the presence and sheer aggression of the Marshall, but very close really.

IC,  The original Five combo used the G10-N40 and I think you have stated that it is one of the better 10 inchers?

Quite their worst choice perhaps was the Rocket 50 for the aforementioned HT-20 and in fact I was told the reason for that suggested mid band boost was because the amp had to be voiced to make it at least passable with the Rocket!

At least B's always fitted speakers with a very 'OTT' power rating and I never had a blown speaker in any combo. I did have a knackred V30 in a 2X12 cab but then you cannot know what the punter was driving it with!

There was an issue with the first Series One 45 combos, the Neos burned out. Never knew the resolution of that? Had to be replaced in production with ferrites (V30?) which was big shame because it made a very heftable twin amp into a back breaker.

Dave.

ICBM

ecc83 said:

IC,  The original Five combo used the G10-N40 and I think you have stated that it is one of the better 10 inchers? 

It is, but there are still better ones... G10 Greenback for example.

ecc83 said:

Quite their worst choice perhaps was the Rocket 50 for the aforementioned HT-20 and in fact I was told the reason for that suggested mid band boost was because the amp had to be voiced to make it at least passable with the Rocket!

That's such backwards logic it almost beggars belief .

I can understand it with things like a portable Bluetooth speaker where the driver is almost by definition going to be a huge compromise so you EQ the amp to deal with it, but for a guitar amp where decent speakers are widely available it's just stupid to cripple an amp like that.

ecc83 said:

There was an issue with the first Series One 45 combos, the Neos burned out. Never knew the resolution of that? Had to be replaced in production with ferrites (V30?) which was big shame because it made a very heftable twin amp into a back breaker.

I have noticed that modern Celestion power ratings seem significantly less conservative than their old ones. It wouldn't surprise me if the Century Vintage (rated for 60W) isn't quite up to the job... I have one, but I'm not going to test it to destruction to find out .

ecc83

"That's such backwards logic it almost beggars belief ." Well yes IC, but as I have said times before, the wants and thought processes of 'industry' are often at odds with what WE believe is good!

Blackstar have weathered at least 3 recessions and it may have been that they needed to get a mid priced, middle power combo out PDQ  and the designer had a very limited range of options to meet the budget.

BTW there is a story around that they 'forgot' to fit a standby switch? Maybe they did but since the amp has that clever shutdown capability it does not need one (neither does anything else IMHO!) and that saved a few quid and probably translated to £20 or more off the retail price.

Dave.

impmann

ecc83 said:

"That's such backwards logic it almost beggars belief ." Well yes IC, but as I have said times before, the wants and thought processes of 'industry' are often at odds with what WE believe is good!

Blackstar have weathered at least 3 recessions and it may have been that they needed to get a mid priced, middle power combo out PDQ  and the designer had a very limited range of options to meet the budget.

BTW there is a story around that they 'forgot' to fit a standby switch? Maybe they did but since the amp has that clever shutdown capability it does not need one (neither does anything else IMHO!) and that saved a few quid and probably translated to £20 or more off the retail price.

Dave.

If folks genuinely believe that the amps aren’t tested with lots of expensive speakers before settling on what’s specified from the factory they are mad… and the factory fitted speakers are actually voiced to sound remarkably similar to much more expensive ones with posh badges. They aren’t just cheap off the peg stuff… despite what some may say who don’t work there.  An NDA prevents me from elaborating further.

I can’t comment on what was done years ago when Dave was there, but based on first hand of the present it’s not like *that* now!  

And yes you can just put any old jack in the front end to release the protection but it’s best practice to use a shorting jack. 

Mr_Claw

ICBM said:

Danny1969 said:

I was also amazed at the difference between the normal HT5 combo and my head into a large 1 x 12 Celestion G75 lead cab. The combo sounds small and boxy, mine sounded much bigger and mine is loud enough to gig unmiced into my cab. 

@ecc83 will be quite familiar with my constant moaning about Blackstar’s choice of speakers .

I once tried an ID60 head into a Marshall 4x12” with G12T-75s too, it sounded almost as loud as a 50W Marshall valve head into the same cab, and very good - just missing a tiny bit of the presence and sheer aggression of the Marshall, but very close really.

Yep. I hated the stock speaker too. Replaced it with a Fane A60. It was too big for the cab, but given the modular nature of the HT5 I just took the amp section out and put it on top of the cab.

Thanks all.

ecc83

Impmann, I mean no disrespect to the company, I still have great affection for it and my times there. I can only relay what I heard. I know the lengths they went to produce a good product and part of my job was to try to destroy them!

I was however involved in retail electronics for many years and had many a conversation with the technical depts of the major TV/radio and video companies. Many a time the problem of a 'stock fault' was down to penny pinching of a component  but often this was justified by the phrase "A penny in production. A pound in the shop" Now, Blackstar's gear has never fallen down in that respect. Many of the components are well overrated for their task, a policy that can make the amps seem a little more expensive than some folks think they should be.

But loudspeakers are not 'cathode bias resistors"! Their sound if very subjective as anyone who has read these threads for just few months will attest. The Rocket 50 is however somewhat unique it seems in being universally castigated as the worst guitar speaker ever made!

ICBM and I have crossed solder irons a few times on this matter. ALWAYS in a most gentlemanly fashion! He wants a top grade speaker in every amp regardless of shop price (I am obviously simplifying here) I maintain it is horses for 'market' courses. Yer bedroom wannabe at 14 is not going to be fussed by a Rocket 50 in a 20. He is just going to glory in the noise it makes! If he grows more particular he can swap out the speaker.

Dave.

impmann

Just for the record - the HT20 Mk1 had the Rocket 50 speaker and Blackstar haven’t made any of those for at least five years.

The HT-20 Mk2 doesn’t use the same speaker.

ecc83

impmann said:

Just for the record - the HT20 Mk1 had the Rocket 50 speaker and Blackstar haven’t made any of those for at least five years.

The HT-20 Mk2 doesn’t use the same speaker.

Jolly good !

Dave.