(More) reliable amps? Or - what to avoid?

Greatape

Been watching the Psionic Audio YouTube channel. Interesting yet slightly depressing inasmuch as lots of production amps seem doomed to fail after a relatively short time. 

So, what is (more) reliable than something like a Hot Rod or a Katana? Solid state or valve, and not boutique. 

Conversely, what's the 'definitely avoid' list?

HAL9000

People talk about valves being fragile and unreliable. However, the reality is that tens of thousands of gigging musicians throw their amps into the backs of cars and vans every day and, mostly, they still work. Even things like Blues Jnrs which have a bit of a reputation for running hot are still reliable enough that that there are plenty of pub players who swear by them 

Danny1969

Well a Hot Rod is pretty reliable in general. Plus it's not difficult to fix if it does go wrong. In my experience anyway. I haven't seen any Katana's yet. 

Basically there's 4 ways to build a guitar amp

Valve & transformer based class AB 
Linear transformer based power supply and linear class Transistor AB output stage 
Switch mode power supply with linear Transistor AB output stage
Switch mode power supply with class D digital switching transistor output stage 

The most reliable way is 2, the linear transformer power supply and class AB transistor output stage. This basic design will literally never go wrong if it's heatsinked correctly and protected from short circuits on the speaker outputs. All solid state amps up until fairly recently were this design. 
Trouble is even with a good sound design things like bad joints and send / return sockets will play up and cause problems at gigs. So even a bullet proof design like an old Peavey Bandit may have problems. 

Personally I feel valve amps are the best bet for gigs  because although valves do fail you can change them yourself, right there and then even if you know nothing about electronics. 

My tip for future failures, The Fender Tonemaster series 

p90fool

I have a pair of HRDs, one is faultless, the other one is stuck on the clean channel, so I'd call that 100% reliable.

ICBM

The only really big ones to avoid are UK-made Marshalls from the JTM30/JTM60/JCM600 and original DSL/TSL series up to (but not including) the JVMs. Those have really serious multiple design faults and component quality issues that can't really be cured.

Fender Blues Juniors also have a slight tendency to set themselves on fire...

Both these did sell in pretty big numbers, so it's entirely possible to have one and not experience any trouble, but I would still avoid them if possible.

CaseOfAce

Been gigging a hot rod deluxe mkIV solidly for the last 3 years - and other than the strap handle coming loose from the fitting - it's all been tip top. 
I had a Rivera chubster 45  and the transformer went in that.. 
I've seen a mate's Mesa-F50 catch fire (seriously) before a gig...
Fender bassbreaker 15 the digital reverb went on it... 
I've had reverb tank go on an AC15....

My experience has thus been that any and all amps can go wrong - that's why god created backups...(you do gig with a backup right?).

Greatape

CaseOfAce said:

Been gigging a hot rod deluxe mkIV solidly for the last 3 years - and other than the strap handle coming loose from the fitting - it's all been tip top. 
I had a Rivera chubster 45  and the transformer went in that.. 
I've seen a mate's Mesa-F50 catch fire (seriously) before a gig...
Fender bassbreaker 15 the digital reverb went on it... 
I've had reverb tank go on an AC15....

My experience has thus been that any and all amps can go wrong - that's why god created backups...(you do gig with a backup right?).

12-14 piece band. No room for another amp.
Although I have been considering one of those ZT amps as an emergency backup

CaseOfAce

Greatape said:

CaseOfAce said:

Been gigging a hot rod deluxe mkIV solidly for the last 3 years - and other than the strap handle coming loose from the fitting - it's all been tip top. 
I had a Rivera chubster 45  and the transformer went in that.. 
I've seen a mate's Mesa-F50 catch fire (seriously) before a gig...
Fender bassbreaker 15 the digital reverb went on it... 
I've had reverb tank go on an AC15....

My experience has thus been that any and all amps can go wrong - that's why god created backups...(you do gig with a backup right?).

12-14 piece band. No room for another amp.
Although I have been considering one of those ZT amps as an emergency backup

Which is why you have an Orange micro terror head in the boot of your car with a speaker cable. 

impmann

I've gigged HRDs for years... no failures. I call internet BS about them being unreliable - or just a vocal minority. See final line in this reply...

Valves don't really just "fail" - yes they can "wear out" but that takes years of use. Fragility is only an issue in that the glass envelope can be broken - the rest of it is pretty robust. Example: the field radios used by the Army for years contained valves and they could survive battlefields (yes, I know some of the military spec valves were a bit tougher... but you get the gist). I actually know someone who owns an AC30 they gigged throughout the 70s , 80s and 90s in working mans clubs... it still has most of its original valves and sounds beautiful. 

Units that 'catch fire' - there's usually a root cause, thats not normally a design flaw or poor QC ( @ICBM 's Marshalls excepted). Transformers usually only go pop if they are underspecc'd or if there is an underlying fault - such as a speaker that goes partial short at full extension or when the voice coil gets warm (seen that a few times but its not exactly common). In my experience, its rarely the ironwork or the valves that give out... its more common to be the supporting circuitry which is common to an SS amp (relatively speaking). 

What you have to realise is that if you sell 10,000s of a unit and the failure rate is 0.5%, which most would agree is *very* small - that still represents a few bad experiences.

Greatape

CaseOfAce said:

Greatape said:

CaseOfAce said:

Been gigging a hot rod deluxe mkIV solidly for the last 3 years - and other than the strap handle coming loose from the fitting - it's all been tip top. 
I had a Rivera chubster 45  and the transformer went in that.. 
I've seen a mate's Mesa-F50 catch fire (seriously) before a gig...
Fender bassbreaker 15 the digital reverb went on it... 
I've had reverb tank go on an AC15....

My experience has thus been that any and all amps can go wrong - that's why god created backups...(you do gig with a backup right?).

12-14 piece band. No room for another amp.
Although I have been considering one of those ZT amps as an emergency backup

Which is why you have an Orange micro terror head in the boot of your car with a speaker cable. 

Main gig amp has a hardwired speaker. I may get it modified to fix that. 

Greatape

bertie

ICBM said:

Fender Blues Juniors also have a slight tendency to set themselves on fire...

see, they even know themselves how bad they are   

Greatape

I've only ever had one amp failure, which was down to insufficient juice out of the supply in a marquee for someone's wedding.... fortunately, had a crappy little practice amp on the car. Stuck a 906 in front and did the gig like that. Imagine that the tone was slightly lacking in the 'haunting mids' dept...

Modulus_Amps

Greatape said:

Been watching the Psionic Audio YouTube channel. Interesting yet slightly depressing inasmuch as lots of production amps seem doomed to fail after a relatively short time. 

So, what is (more) reliable than something like a Hot Rod or a Katana? Solid state or valve, and not boutique. 

Conversely, what's the 'definitely avoid' list?

The Psionic Audio YouTube channel would be number one

No amp ever will be good enough and any good tech could look at any amp and criticize how things have been done.

impmann

Yikes Psionic Audio is a bit on the negative side, isn't he? 

But hey... believe the internet. Everything is shit, apparently.

Greatape

Modulus_Amps said:

Greatape said:

Been watching the Psionic Audio YouTube channel. Interesting yet slightly depressing inasmuch as lots of production amps seem doomed to fail after a relatively short time. 

So, what is (more) reliable than something like a Hot Rod or a Katana? Solid state or valve, and not boutique. 

Conversely, what's the 'definitely avoid' list?

The Psionic Audio YouTube channel would be number one

No amp ever will be good enough and any good tech could look at any amp and criticize how things have been done.

Guess it's a good sales pitch

ICBM

impmann said:

Units that 'catch fire' - there's usually a root cause, thats not normally a design flaw or poor QC ( @ICBM 's Marshalls excepted).

There's a very specific design fault on the Blues Junior - not the new MkIV, where they've finally cured it - which is what causes the frequent fires in these... some genius decided to negate the very sensible design of the EL84 power valve which keeps the HT pins away from the LT ones, and ran a HT trace right between the LT ones on the board. Doh!

Even given that, most of them probably don't do it - Fender have sold vast numbers of them (why is a different question!).

I don't know what the failure rates of these, or the DSL/TSLs are, but if they were as high as 25% over five years (which I seriously doubt) that would be *horrendous* by modern electronics standards, and still three-quarters of owners wouldn't see what the problem is.

Of course, Fender setting all their amps to the Eurofudge 230V tap when there is a 240V one available - which is not their fault, it's the rules - doesn't help...

duotone

Just started watching his channel & he is doing a new series of videos.
Amps Under $500 - Part 1 (video below)
Amps Under $1000 - Part 2 (I will try & remember to post this here, when it’s on YouTube)

https://youtu.be/x27tHjQGAbY

SidNewton

Buy an Orange

matt_sefton

SidNewton said:

Buy an Orange

You might still get a lemon…

De_Batz

I’d lay a wager that use case and failure mode are often correlated.

for example, TGP features much moaning about the unreliability of older Marshall amps (generally dead PTs), but not so much about BF Fenders. However, when you think about the different treatment those amps are getting, it’s no surprise to find that the one being thrashed is more likely to give up (if, indeed, that stands up to scrutiny). 

Where someone has gone wrong at the design or manufacture stage, it may be that 500 or 1000 units are out there before anyone notices, especially when the fail is in the ‘predictably inevitable but not likely in the first 500 hours’ category…