Kirk “The Weak Link” Hammett - Chris Zoupa

duotone

I’m far from being a big Metallica fan but this guy Chris Zoupa brings up some interesting points.  I didn’t know about Kirk not contributing to the ‘Hardwired... to Self-Destruct‘ album due to losing his phone which contained a bunch of songs.

Skip to 1:54mins
https://youtu.be/e8IyxDGeadQ?t=114

RocknRollDave

I’m currently watching a Metallica live show, and Kirk’s been pretty meh all the way through, but this is hardly news, is it? Sometimes you like a band despite their faults, sometimes you don’t, I guess.

The phone thing was pretty widely publicised at the time, to be fair.



As for improvised solos, some of the best solos ever recorded were either improvised or comped from several improvised takes. I get that Kirk hasn’t got the melodic/ harmonic ear to improvise in a musical way, but that doesn’t mean improvisation is wrong per se.

odd video…I’m not really sure why the guy bothered to record it.

duotone

RocknRollDave said:

I’m currently watching a Metallica live show, and Kirk’s been pretty meh all the way through, but this is hardly news, is it? Sometimes you like a band despite their faults, sometimes you don’t, I guess.

The phone thing was pretty widely publicised at the time, to be fair.



As for improvised solos, some of the best solos ever recorded were either improvised or comped from several improvised takes. I get that Kirk hasn’t got the melodic/ harmonic ear to improvise in a musical way, but that doesn’t mean improvisation is wrong per se.

odd video…I’m not really sure why the guy bothered to record it.

He think Kirk makes “Bad decisions, is sloppy & his work ethic is really really questionable”

Just a fan giving his opinion on Kirk. How Kirk seems to contribute less effort to the albums as time has gone on.

Boromedic

No Kirk - no Metallica as we know it. I'll take Kirk any day over anyone else. As a massive fan of Metallica I know his shortcomings, but his recorded work is as good as anyone in the genre. Yeah he's not technically as good as some, what he plays for the song is great though. He wasn't too bad on the 40th anniversary stuff recently, he also plays decent rhythm all night, some of that shit is very hard to play. (Props to James for doing it and singing)

He did go missing around the time of Hardwired, James was actually vocal about the lack of Kirk's input. However Kirk was going through a rough time, including some reported drug addiction, so he deserves some slack. He also literally plays every day nearly, he just isn't able to replicate stuff consistently like say Zakk or Lukather or other people can. (I can relate ). So to say he has little work ethic is pretty much off the mark, he's never missed a Metallica gig, unlike James or Lars. You also have to understand that James and Lars control that band, Kirk's input hasn't always been encouraged beyond ideas.

I think people also forget he wrote some banging riffs, least of all the main riff in Sandman, one of the biggest metal songs of all time off the biggest album in the genre, from the band considered The Beatles of metal. What's Mr You Tube done? That's right, nothing, except make videos of course......

Philly_Q

duotone said:

Just a fan giving his opinion on Kirk. How Kirk seems to contribute less effort to the albums as time has gone on.

Maybe after decades of "thanks, but no thanks" reactions to his ideas from control freaks Hetfield and Ulrich - that's my impression, I don't claim to know the facts - he's decided to accept his role in the hierarchy and just get on with the rest of his life?

It seems like Jason Newsted spent his years in the band being a kind of whipping boy, the new kid who was never really accepted.  He decided to walk.  But Kirk has made a different choice and accepted his lot.

Boromedic

Jason got fed up because although his ideas weren't accepted in Metallica very much (and let's face it, he hasn't gone on to write All Things Must Pass or anything has he? So we're not missing George here or anything), he was also being prevented from using those ideas outside of the band too. James began to exert control over what he could and couldn't do with his side projects, that was the final straw. 

Whilst no one had any issue with him writing and recording with a whole host of other musicians, when Jason sought to record an album and tour with another band, Echobrain, James essentially gave him an ultimatum as he felt it would detract from Metallica. 

I've no doubt that the lack of writing inclusion added to that, but that's the main reason he left. Jason also knew he was bringing his ideas to the best songwriters in the genre, he wasn't a mug and he was aware that he was unlikely to get them accepted. James has acknowledged his part in all of that, expressed regret and learnt from it during his rehab, however he also accepted that they needed to part to move on. Jason challenged the hierarchy and lost, he wanted to rejoin but the band, but the others knew that it was done. We've all been in bands on a much smaller scale, these issues are normal. 

Jason knew what he was getting into and allowed himself to put up with a high level of hazing initially (pretty much done by 90-91), yet he stayed as the money began to pile up. He was a millionaire pretty much a year and a half after joining the band, with only one writing credit to his name at that point. He was a hard working, dedicated member of the band, and I love him as he was the guy in my era of becoming a fan. He was not as hard done to as the legend states. 

digitalkettle

I watched most of one of the live shows that were on Amazon before Christmas and Kirk was surprisingly on it, imho…they all were actually!

Bidley

Metallica have been touring almost non stop since the early 90s, the only members who have missed shows (as mentioned further up) have been James and Lars. I don't think you can question Kirk's work ethic.

As @Philly_Q says he's probably realised his lot in the band and has mentally checked out. It's a shame if so, as he's written some of the most memorable metal guitar solos ever and inspired untold amounts of players.

Emiel

Kirk is 40 years in business and approaching 60, give him a break. 

People are often bashing Metallica for all kinds of stuff, for not being metal enough ever since the Black Album came out, Lars being a shit drummer, Kirk not being involved, which I think all says more about the 'fans' than over the actual band.

We should be grateful that they are still together and playing well. Most of their contempories have either all new guys in the band or called it quits.

Boromedic

Emiel said:

Kirk is 40 years in business and approaching 60, give him a break. 

People are often bashing Metallica for all kinds of stuff, for not being metal enough ever since the Black Album came out, Lars being a shit drummer, Kirk not being involved, which I think all says more about the 'fans' than over the actual band.

We should be grateful that they are still together and playing well. Most of their contempories have either all new guys in the band or called it quits.

Wiz'd and producing an album as good as Hardwired after nearly 36yrs as a band, some stone cold classics on that album. 

Reverend

Boromedic said:

Jason got fed up because although his ideas weren't accepted in Metallica very much (and let's face it, he hasn't gone on to write All Things Must Pass or anything has he? So we're not missing George here or anything), he was also being prevented from using those ideas outside of the band too. James began to exert control over what he could and couldn't do with his side projects, that was the final straw. 

Whilst no one had any issue with him writing and recording with a whole host of other musicians, when Jason sought to record an album and tour with another band, Echobrain, James essentially gave him an ultimatum as he felt it would detract from Metallica. 

I've no doubt that the lack of writing inclusion added to that, but that's the main reason he left. Jason also knew he was bringing his ideas to the best songwriters in the genre, he wasn't a mug and he was aware that he was unlikely to get them accepted. James has acknowledged his part in all of that, expressed regret and learnt from it during his rehab, however he also accepted that they needed to part to move on. Jason challenged the hierarchy and lost, he wanted to rejoin but the band, but the others knew that it was done. We've all been in bands on a much smaller scale, these issues are normal. 

Jason knew what he was getting into and allowed himself to put up with a high level of hazing initially (pretty much done by 90-91), yet he stayed as the money began to pile up. He was a millionaire pretty much a year and a half after joining the band, with only one writing credit to his name at that point. He was a hard working, dedicated member of the band, and I love him as he was the guy in my era of becoming a fan. He was not as hard done to as the legend states. 

however he did write Doomsday For The Deceiver which is better than anything Metallica wrote since the black album.

They didn't like him doing an outside band but James doing backing vocals on other albums. 

Boromedic

Reverend said:

Boromedic said:

Jason got fed up because although his ideas weren't accepted in Metallica very much (and let's face it, he hasn't gone on to write All Things Must Pass or anything has he? So we're not missing George here or anything), he was also being prevented from using those ideas outside of the band too. James began to exert control over what he could and couldn't do with his side projects, that was the final straw. 

Whilst no one had any issue with him writing and recording with a whole host of other musicians, when Jason sought to record an album and tour with another band, Echobrain, James essentially gave him an ultimatum as he felt it would detract from Metallica. 

I've no doubt that the lack of writing inclusion added to that, but that's the main reason he left. Jason also knew he was bringing his ideas to the best songwriters in the genre, he wasn't a mug and he was aware that he was unlikely to get them accepted. James has acknowledged his part in all of that, expressed regret and learnt from it during his rehab, however he also accepted that they needed to part to move on. Jason challenged the hierarchy and lost, he wanted to rejoin but the band, but the others knew that it was done. We've all been in bands on a much smaller scale, these issues are normal. 

Jason knew what he was getting into and allowed himself to put up with a high level of hazing initially (pretty much done by 90-91), yet he stayed as the money began to pile up. He was a millionaire pretty much a year and a half after joining the band, with only one writing credit to his name at that point. He was a hard working, dedicated member of the band, and I love him as he was the guy in my era of becoming a fan. He was not as hard done to as the legend states. 

however he did write Doomsday For The Deceiver which is better than anything Metallica wrote since the black album.

They didn't like him doing an outside band but James doing backing vocals on other albums. 

Hahahahaha, I own that album and no it's not, not in the slightest. Better than Atlas Rise, Spit Out the Bone, Hardwired and Moth? Better than Broken Beat and Scarred or Judas Kiss? I don't think so, it beats St Anger but that's not hard is it really.

James has acknowledged that he treated Jason badly over the side thing. His argument was he wasn't out touring with them or selling albums, merely guesting on the songs. He does have a point with that, Jason was lining up a tour and an album with Echobrain and rumour has it QPrime were lining up to assist, that's where James drew the line (incorrectly) and Jason spat his dummy out and left. That was his choice, no one else's. 

I love the revisionist arguments about Metallica because people don't like the fact they became massive, Doomsday for the Deceiver, hahahahahahaha.

Boromedic

So this:

Is better than this:

Don't think so, it's not even close. 

Philly_Q

@Boromedic We get it, you're a fan of Hardwired and Death Magnetic.  I find them bloated and tedious.

fretmeister

Boromedic said:

So this:

Is better than this:

Don't think so, it's not even close. 

Not just better, but far better.

I love Metallica to the point that I even did the mullet and the white explorer thing for years, but Doomsday is better than Hardwired.

Philly_Q

I loved Doomsday For The Deceiver at the time, but to be honest I haven't heard it for decades.

However well it holds up now, you have to put it in context - it's 35 years old and the recording budget and studio time was probably equivalent to The $5.98 E.P. – Garage Days Re-Revisited.

Boromedic

Philly_Q said:

@Boromedic We get it, you're a fan of Hardwired and Death Magnetic.  I find them bloated and tedious.

No not a big fan of Death Magnetic, at times it is exactly what you've said, but Hardwired is a real return to the old days quality. Unfortunately some prejudices remain it seems.

Boromedic

fretmeister said:

Boromedic said:

So this:

Is better than this:

Don't think so, it's not even close. 

Not just better, but far better.

I love Metallica to the point that I even did the mullet and the white explorer thing for years, but Doomsday is better than Hardwired.

Hahaha, old style thrash really doesn't hold up that well nowadays, I loved it in the day and still have the majority of the Big 4 on CD along with stuff like Doomsday and Testament. 

They are not far better, Jason is not Hetfield and Ulrich and obviously the sales back that up too. If you enjoy Flotsam better than Hardwired I'll leave you to it to enjoy. Whilst my copy gathers dust in the cupboard.

fretmeister

Boromedic said:

Philly_Q said:

@Boromedic We get it, you're a fan of Hardwired and Death Magnetic.  I find them bloated and tedious.

No not a big fan of Death Magnetic, at times it is exactly what you've said, but Hardwired is a real return to the old days quality. Unfortunately some prejudices remain it seems.

"Prejudices"

Really? 
It's just different tastes, that all. Don't take it so personally.

Bidley

Doomsday for the Deceiver isn't even the best F&J album

But really, comparing DftD to something like Hardwired is silly. Like comparing Pleasure to Kill to Slippery When Wet.

The whole "this album is better ololol" is a bit 14-year-olds-arguing-on-dad's-work-PC isn't it though.

Boromedic

fretmeister said:

Boromedic said:

Philly_Q said:

@Boromedic We get it, you're a fan of Hardwired and Death Magnetic.  I find them bloated and tedious.

No not a big fan of Death Magnetic, at times it is exactly what you've said, but Hardwired is a real return to the old days quality. Unfortunately some prejudices remain it seems.

"Prejudices"

Really? 
It's just different tastes, that all. Don't take it so personally.

I haven't at all, what an earth are you on about, I disagree with your opinion as it's wrong that's all. I'm also aware that Metallica's success means their best stuff since 91 is universally disliked regardless of how good it is. That's what I'm on about, if someone had said Jason had written something more significant then fine, but Doomsday is not a milestone thrash record and it's not better than Metallica's best since 91. It would be largely forgotten now if it wasn't for the fact Jason joined Metallica.

You can have your opinion and I'll have mine, I'm not bothered at all, but I'll fight my corner on this because if you could blind listen to those songs and not know who it was (obviously that's never gonna happen), I'm pretty sure your opinion would be different. That's the prejudices I'm on about.