Dead sounding guitar

Axe_meister

Hi have a Warmoth build that I've had since the late 2000s.
I've never really gotten on with it. It just feels a little dead. Can't quite describe why though, it does doesn't sing
like other guitar I have.
Specs. Mahogany body with thick flamed maple top, Music Man axis shape, massive boat neck (maple with rosewood fingerboard), locking sperzel tuners, graphtec nut.
Pickups. Bareknuckle Rebel Yell in the bridge, SD Stacked strat in the neck.
Wilkinson two pivot trem.
There is nothing wrong with the guitar and it plays well, there is just something missing.
It weighs a ton mind.

Any ideas? I know it's a very vague description of the problem.

WezV

First thought for me is the trem.... which Wilkinson one is one there?

Lebarque

Some bits of wood are just not great acoustically and others don't pair well together (body and neck). That's the lottery of building partscasters I'm afraid. You don't know what it will sound like until you put it together.

Does the guitar resonate when you play it acoustically, or is it lifeless? There's a common bit of wisdom (which I agree with) that the tone is in the neck. Have you got any other necks you can bolt on to see if it sounds better?

That's assuming it's all wired up etc. correctly of course.

Axe_meister

VS100. I have a VS 50 on another guitar and that one sounds good

Axe_meister

All wired correctly. All the sound/volume is there. It just doesn't have that magic a guitar of this calibre should have. Cost me 2200 quid back in the day

WezV

Is the VS50 one a heavy guitar too?   

I ask as one of my guitars I absolutely hated the sound of was a heavy guitar with VS100 trem.  it was just thin and weedy

Unfortunately some bits just don't work together well.

WezV

The biggest change will come from changing thr neck though.... but that is a total gamble, so not always helpful

Axe_meister

The VS50 is fairly heavy too, but has an alder body with maple top (super strat)

Axe_meister

I was actually thinking of changing the trem anyway to a floyd rose (well get it done) 

Axe_meister

Maybe I'll swap the necks. Would make the superstrat look a bit Silver Sky is (6 a side head stock)

WezV

If you have the bits to try it, it's definitely worth a go

Funkfingers

I have a Sterling By Musicman AX40. (The Indonesian-made model that retailed for £600 rather than any of the S.U.B. series.) This is heavier than its nearest American-made equivalent and was not well served by its stock pickups.

Same guitar with active Seymour Duncan Live Wire Classic II humbuckers and an EMG-SPC mid booster, greatly improved Tele-Gib hybrid tones but still not quite right.

Same guitar with passive DiMarzio humbuckers, bang on!

Axe_meister said:

Bareknuckle Rebel Yell in the bridge, SD Stacked strat in the neck.

No disrespect to either pickup manufacturer but these designs just might not suit the host guitar.

Axe_meister

Maybe I needs something brighter, it does sound quite dark acoustically and plugged in

Flip

May I offer a thought and a little experience?

Most people define 'live' or 'not dead' in guitars in reference to the instrument's sustain or resonance, relative to other similar guitars. In my experience, I've found that such qualities are unusually the result of just one factor, but cumulatively the result of a number of smaller factors. Unfortunately, as in the OP's case, that can mean a laborious and possibly expensive replacement of bits. It might also be 'genetic'.

Many years ago I owned a Hofner Verthin bass guitar. It had all original equipment and was hollow which might have led you to assume it was quite lively and resonant. Far from it. It was as dead as a plank. I was doing a recording at Pluto Studios in Manchester with a singing group I worked with at that time and the studio owner (a well-known musician) offered me his Precision Bass to play. Solid v hollow - the result ought to have been obvious but the Fender was far and away the more resonant instrument.

Chalk and Cheese with no obvious logic. I sold the Verithin for a decent profit to an enthusiast some years later. 

BlueStrat

At that kind of price it should play and sound great.

Does it still sound dead if you play it through different amps? 

No improvements from adjusting the tone controls?

Funkfingers

Flip said:

Hofner Verthin bass guitar … all original … hollow … dead as a plank. 

Ply, ply, ply, Delilah!

Gibson ES Thinline guitars use steamed and pressed laminates of maple and poplar. The majority of budget Höfners appear to consist of packing case rejects. 

andy_k

Is the trem set up floating? I find having the trem decked allows for a lot more vibration transfer.
Mahogany is generally fairly resonant, and maple adds a toppier bite to it ( does on a LP usually ) but it very much depends on the individual pieces.
Also worth checking the truss rod, sometimes it is not really doing anything in a fat neck, and just having it tightened ( without changing the relief ) can allow more vibrations.
Floyds are known for 'thinning' the tone, hence the aftermarket big brass blocks, but its a fairly expensive experiment if it doesn't give results.

ICBM

This may be contrary to popular opinion and belief, but...

I have always found big necks dead-sounding. I know a lot of people say 'fat neck, fat tone' or something similar, but it just doesn't work that way for me. I find slimmer, more flexible necks sound much more vibrant and lively. OK, I know this is a generalisation and it's likely there are exceptions, but it's been by far the most noticeable correlation to me.

So, given that the neck itself is a major contributor to the tone of a guitar (I think fairly widely accepted), and the combination of the neck and body resonances working well together (or otherwise) is in my opinion even more so, I would change the neck to something substantially less massive and boat-like and see where that gets you.

andy_k

I think the neck 'stiffness' is a major contributor, ie- bigger, fatter necks are usually a bit stiffer than thinner examples, this can translate to more vibrations being transferred to the body, and not lost in the neck. This makes a guitar feel like it is alive and resonating. Obviously, wood is wood, and no 2 pieces will react the same, but sometimes you get lucky, and generally fatter necks are less bendy, so the results might be more predictable.
A truss rod that is not under tension, which might be the case in a fat neck, also might have a negative impact on the tone, and a minor adjustment can bring things to life.
A slimmer neck, will be relying much more on the truss rod for it's stiffness, and will allow more vibration through the neck as it is somewhat 'tuned' to match the string tension, usually obvious by the annoying 'neck vibrato' that Dan from that pedal show is so fond of.
In short, a stiff neck will allow the body to have a greater tonal impact. The body shape and construction style and woods are all variables that exaggerate this effect.

WezV

There is certainly a liveliness that comes from building everything light and under tension.

But heavy and thick guitars can still sound monstrous once plugged in, when it really counts.

impmann

Just my 2p...

I've not liked the SD Stacked Strat pickup. Its a a generic, characterless sound IMHO. 
The Rebel Yell sounds great for one particular type of sound - but the mids can be a bit... er, dominant and needs careful dialing in (heights) for it sound 'magical'. It can sound fantastic in the right setting... I wonder if it doesn't suit this particular instrument.
Finally... Wilkinson trem. Sorry but I've not been a fan of these since I first encountered them on Eggle guitars back in the late 80s. I'm sure others have had better experiences but having seen them installed on otherwise vibrant Strats and the timbre and character of the guitar take a nose dive - I do wonder if this is a contributory factor in the the dark acoustic tone and its lack of 'spark'. I'm not sure a Floyd will necessarily wake it up, though... it depends on the quality of the Floyd.

You'll need to measure carefully but I'd recommend/suggest slotting one of these in before you do anything else (with locking machines etc)

https://www.gluedtomusic.com/products/849/gotoh-510t-fe1-tremolo-system-chrome/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAxc6PBhCEARIsAH8Hff1bz6Efk-JPUINCT3cu2Avumvlgm_6iAduyf3Suc3w6rz88yZFS5sQaAj5qEALw_wcB

I've had great success with these bridges. I'm not a fan of two post trems in general but this one is very lively and return to pitch is excellent.