Fascinated by the bass response of the DiMarzio Tone Zone

jaymenon

Given the same
AlNiCo V magnet
AWG 43 or 44 (or whatever) wire

How does the Tone Zone have such a prominent bass response?

Particularly when considering that other similar pickups wound to a similar DCR resistance are much more mid-heavy (and with less low end)?

I’m not looking for trade secrets - but would be very interested to understand the principles involved.

Funkfingers

Some DiMarzio humbucker designs intentionally combine two coils of widely different characteristics. The blend yields a tone response that neither coil could if paired with a matching coil.

Even winding the same copper wire the same number of turns under different tension could introduce a difference.

Makers such as Larry DiMarzio, Steve Blucher, Derek Duncan and Tim Mills are winding experimental pickups just to see how things turn out. 

I doubt that any pickup builder ever went to his bench thinking, "Today, I shall be mostly winding a humbucker that will sound exactly like _______________ (fill in the blank)."

Instead, the erstwhile maker tries a few variations on the winding machine, tests the result in a guitar, then, says to himself, "this one sounds very like ____________ (whoever)." 

This is how products get named.

Alegree

One coil is 43, one is 44. 

jaymenon

And that increases the bass response?

thermionic

It’s one louder.

roberty

jaymenon said:

And that increases the bass response?

I am confused by this too. Maybe it is more a case of what it attenuates/cancels

ICBM

It unbalances the coils so the sound has slightly more of the characteristics of a single coil pickup, which includes increased bottom-end punch.

It's a huge-sounding pickup, one of my favourite DiMarzios.

jaymenon

I realise it doesn’t make a sonic difference (Unless you’re using a 56.4mm vintage-spaced Fender bridge)

…but I do wish they’d make a 53mm spaced bridge pickup…

jaymenon

ICBM said:

It unbalances the coils so the sound has slightly more of the characteristics of a single coil pickup, which includes increased bottom-end punch.

It's a huge-sounding pickup, one of my favourite DiMarzios.

Wouldn’t unbalancing the coils also increase the treble response? Like with the vintage PAFs?

This pickup is advertised as having a low treble response - which is sort of perfect for the bridge position.

ICBM

jaymenon said:

Wouldn’t unbalancing the coils also increase the treble response? Like with the vintage PAFs?

This pickup is advertised as having a low treble response - which is sort of perfect for the bridge position.

Only if the winding was lower. The Tone Zone is fairly high-wound, so has a large inductance and - just like a hugely overwound single coil - doesn’t have that much top end.

andy_k

Is it urban myth that this was the original pickup designed for EVH, in Musicman guitars?
I don't care, I like the way the tele version sounds in my walnut bodied Esquire, wouldn't say it was particularly big on the bottom end, but sounds the opposite of what you'd expect in a tele bridge.

Winny_Pooh

andy_k said:

Is it urban myth that this was the original pickup designed for EVH, in Musicman guitars?
I don't care, I like the way the tele version sounds in my walnut bodied Esquire, wouldn't say it was particularly big on the bottom end, but sounds the opposite of what you'd expect in a tele bridge.

Very possibly and the DCR spec at least matches. The same EVH  dimarzio (unlabelled) is in the Axis now and Albert Lee HH too. I took them out of my ALHH as they were too dark, a poor choice on MMs part as really not matching a mahogany body, rosewood neck combo. They're probably ok in an ash/maple maple neck Axis. 

Dave_Mc

andy_k said:

Is it urban myth that this was the original pickup designed for EVH, in Musicman guitars?
I don't care, I like the way the tele version sounds in my walnut bodied Esquire, wouldn't say it was particularly big on the bottom end, but sounds the opposite of what you'd expect in a tele bridge.

No I don't think it's an urban myth, I think it's true. He had to pick from two, and the Tone Zone was the one he didn't pick. There was an article on the Dimarzio site about this recently: https://d2emr0qhzqfj88.cloudfront.net/s3fs-public/2021-02/DiMarzio_RememberingVanHalen.pdf (story starts at page 12)

They're definitely not the same pickups... they don't sound the same, at any rate (though admittedly I never tried them in the same guitar, though trying to do that has its own problems with remembering what you heard etc.) and IIRC the DC resistance readings weren't the same, either. I think I prefer the EVH MusicMan one, though they're both pretty nice if you like darker tones. I prefer brighter, though (at least at the moment, I may change my mind at any point!).

andy_k

@Dave_Mc Thanks for the link, that is a great article, with some great pics. Spot the pile of Frankenstein and 5150 bodies in the pic of Ed's workshop, hard to believe there is only one original of each.

Dave_Mc

@andy_k No problem, I came across it a few weeks ago and promptly saved it- as you said, very useful info there for future reference, and you never know how long it's going to be kept up on the Dimarzio site.

roberty

Great article @Dave_Mc thanks for sharing

Here's that workshop photo for anyone interested. I don't feel like such a weirdo when I see stuff like this

Dave_Mc

^ Hahaha me neither!  

andy_k

Anyone else spot the 6 Franky and 4 5150 bodies waiting in reserve?

roberty

I installed the single coil version of this in a guitar yesterday and it's such a great sound. Probably the best combination of power and note definition I've heard. I was put off by the EQ chart on their website but it's not as crazy as they make out 

Sarge

I'm not normally a fan of a bridge position humbucker, but I picked up a project guitar with just a bridge 'bucker.
I'd tried a couple of pickups in there but they were kind of thin sounding, as befits a bridge I suppose. 
I then gave it one last try with a Tone Zone, my word what a difference! it had a warmth that balanced out the position really well, it almost.... almost sounded like a neck position... I know what I'll be using next time