Popular ostinato’s is there an obvious way to make them for a chord progression ?

hollywoodrox

Name some more  and best way to approach them  (is it ostinato or ostinata) 

Stuff like the one in “boys of summer” By Don Henley 
  Also there is one in “ ain’t nobody by Chaka Kahn “ 

I don’t count message in a bottle as that’s just more like arpeggiated .

I would imagine the theory would be to use notes that appear in every chord , but then surely anything from the parent scale scale would do . 

Or use ambiguous notes (is that a correct term ) 5th 4th 9th etc

Ideally it would also not conflict with a main melody  , which I suppose would 
  Mean voicing it in a higher or lower octave .  

Is there a difference between an ostinato or a melody ? Eg an ostinato repeats and uses more notes .
  

Sometimes it can be hard to tell , some ostinatos seem to just repeat ( boys of summer, ain’t nobody) 
  But are those phrases heard in songs like “see you “ by Depeche Mode   Considered ostinatos and if not what would you call them .

bass lines seem to popularly be ostinato in fashion (another one bites the dust?) 

can anyone shed light on these fascinating musical snippets from a pop/rock perspective 
they even tend to make great hooks .

can you name very popular ones in songs everyone would know.

viz

Ostinati. 

I love a good ostinato but they’re also the refuge of really lazy artists, like Coldplay who often deploy a very simple repeated tune over a shifting harmony, and it grates my ear. 

Brad

There is no mystical formula when it comes to Ostinati. An Ostinato is (generally) a short rhythmic/melodic repeating idea. So a repeating pattern on a snare drum is an ostinato for example, there doesn’t need to be any pitches. 

Those of us from the pop/rock/jazz world will generally call these riffs but perhaps that’s a bit of a grey area?

But in my mind, they are clear, repetitive musical statements that occur in a piece of music a lot, forming the basis of a huge amount of pop/rock music. Off the top of my head:

Sweet Child Of Mine - G n’ R
La Tristesse Durera - Manics 

Living On A Prayer (during the verses)
Whole Lotta Love - Led Zep
Back In Black - AC/DC

Basically anything we’d consider a ‘riff’ in a rock music. 

I love early 80s King Crimson for this sort of thing (Discipline, Beat, Three of a Perfect Pair), particularly the way they layer them. 

https://youtu.be/0WzSy1LGiJI

We’re veering further way from Pop/Rock but I’m a big fan of Steve Reich too.

Electric Counterpoint 

https://youtu.be/plL2VDAoThU

Clapping Music

https://youtu.be/YPU5XrmORCQ

Piano Phase

https://youtu.be/i0345c6zNfM

viz

A very good example from pop is Duran Duran’s Save a Prayer. The opening keyboard phrase “obstinately” repeats, again and again, despite the chords underneath shifting from Dm to F to Bb to Gm and back to Dm. 

Then at 1:01 the chorus modulates to Bm, and there’s another ostinato over the underlying chords of Bb - D - F - F#m - A.

https://youtu.be/6Uxc9eFcZyM


This for me is the key to a good ostinato - the fact that the harmony is flowing underneath the repetition - and this distinguishes it from other non-ostinato, repeated riffs, like Smoke on the Water, which plays the same line 3 times (well, the middle one has an extra chord, I believe), but they’re all played over the tonic G, so they’re not as obstinate.

The intro to Sweet Child o Mine, mentioned above, is a great example of an ostinato because the chords are D, Em, G, D (implied), or D, C, G, D (with the long chords) - though I seem to remember it’s transposed down a semitone but anyhoo - while the irritating little guitar twiddle continues above regardless. I don’t know what the Italian for ‘fucking obstinate’ is, but SCOM is an example of it. 

An ostinato is usually a riff (apart from rhythm ostinati), but a riff isn’t necessarily an ostinato. 

The other similar device that I’m very fond of is a pedal. 

hollywoodrox

@viz ;

you have really hit the nail on the head with the Duran Duran one  what an absolutely perfect example ,thank you so much , it ticks all the boxes ,it’s understated enough to sit beneath the overall chords and melodies but it really stands out and carries the song along , plus it’s a huge favourite of mine .  

For some reason I never think of the SCOM intro as an ostinato in the sense I think of them as it changes with each chord in the progression . I love that intro though as G n R are one of my joint top 3 bands .  What always amazes me is that Bass intro too , how on earth did Duff come up with that  it’s very melodic .

thanks for your input on this. I was expecting it from you actually as you have answered some similar theory related questions ,and once told me about  waiting for flights in departure lounges and reading up on music theory when young and travelling with parents  which in itself sounds quite fascinating  .

Many thanks again Paul 

bloodandtears

Adrian Smith rocks!!!

Brad

viz said:

An ostinato is usually a riff (apart from rhythm ostinati), but a riff isn’t necessarily an ostinato.  

Yep, I’m with you on this and it’s a good way of putting it. And as I said, it’s a little bit of a vague grey area depending on what it is.

I named Back in Black and Whole Lotta Love, you yourself Smoke On The Water, but I don’t really hear them as ostinati, even though they ‘could’ be explained as such, as even though they are repeating ideas they don't feel as… obstinate to my ear

hollywoodrox

bloodandtears said:

Adrian Smith rocks!!!

Brilliant ,yes Adrian smith is ace  I really like his ASAP record which I have , not so keen on the latest Smith Kotzen one although it is great . His maiden stuff is awesome though 

hollywoodrox

Beautiful Bass one  I do love the Chaka Kahn one though on ain’t nobody 
  
  https://youtu.be/sO4vI8P88NM

viz

The Trooper has an ostinato over Em and C. Well, every Iron Maiden song does.

Brad said:

viz said:

An ostinato is usually a riff (apart from rhythm ostinati), but a riff isn’t necessarily an ostinato.  

Yep, I’m with you on this and it’s a good way of putting it. And as I said, it’s a little bit of a vague grey area depending on what it is.

I named Back in Black and Whole Lotta Love, you yourself Smoke On The Water, but I don’t really hear them as ostinati, even though they ‘could’ be explained as such, as even though they are repeating ideas they don't feel as… obstinate to my ear

Sorry - I wasn't clear enough - Smoke on the Water is not an ostinato, in my view, it's just a riff.

bloodandtears

viz said:

The Trooper has an ostinato over Em and C. Well, every Iron Maiden song does.

true enough.. just listening to Hallowed Be Thy Name.. full of them..

Brad

viz said:

Sorry - I wasn't clear enough - Smoke on the Water is not an ostinato, in my view, it's just a riff.

Oh your clarity was perfectly clear I was agreeing with you about SOTW, and that I actually hear BIB and WLL in much the same way, as riffs rather than Ostinati even though they could be argued as such…. Music eh?  

viz

Brad said:

viz said:

Sorry - I wasn't clear enough - Smoke on the Water is not an ostinato, in my view, it's just a riff.

Oh your clarity was perfectly clear I was agreeing with you about SOTW, and that I actually hear BIB and WLL in much the same way, as riffs rather than Ostinati even though they could be argued as such…. Music eh?  

Ah lol I misread your post!!

monquixote

How about Theme From Shaft

That wah riff just won't quit.

viz

Inception soundtrack has ostinati throughout. 

Check the alternating G - F# semitone thing going on while the chords go Gm - F# - D# - B. 

https://youtu.be/OzLhXesNkCI

Stuckfast

Some neat ostinato action here:

bloodandtears

and another..

hollywoodrox

bloodandtears said:

and another..

My fave IM song 

bloodandtears

littered with them..