Gervais: Super Nature

CavemanGrogg

bertie said:

TeleMaster said:

CavemanGrogg said:

bertie said:

jesus H

they'll be saying drummers have feelings next

Lets no get carried away here, next you'll be saying lefties and gingers should be included in the equality act, and treated like equals.

A right wing person denying people their rights based on their identity. Hmmmm. 

that's a big assumption   -    who's right wing ?   just cos you're anti left w doesnt make you right w (and vicy verci).............. be in the middle,  then you can lampoon both   
double bubble for a lot less trouble

What's even funnier is, if you go through my post history, especially the few threads that I started, like the one where I ask if people have sold their guirar to Guitar Guitar, and their experience of it.  You'll see that I'm a leftie myself, who was taught to play right handed.

LastMantra

CavemanGrogg said:

fretmeister said:

Brize said:

fretmeister said:

I always amazed when a gay man uses the phrase "woke" as an insult when there is a significant proportion of humans who think that gay people having any rights at all is "woke."

There's hardly anyone who thinks that gay people having rights is 'woke'. In the UK, for example, homosexuality is now perfectly mainstream, and in countries where homosexuality is illegal or otherwise frowned up, there is no such concept as 'woke' because such ideas would never even get a foothold.

Semantics of woke is not a good argument.

The fact that other countries describe those who support the rights of others in a different way does not change the concept.

Bleeding Heart Liberals was a previous version. Language changes over time.

I can name 3 people in my extended family who thinks the OP shouldn’t have any rights at all. Their views on trans people are even worse.

I'm willing to bet those people think that Alf Garnett is the ''hero'' of Till Death Us Do Part, when in fact he is the butt of every joke in every episode, and never came out on top in any episode.

Topical!  


I think when he (RG) is on stage he can be basically playing a character. Like most comedians. It kind of separates the man from the art. He, quite cleverly, flirts with it though and doesn't make it too obvious what "character", if any, he is playing. Just because someone says something on stage doesn't mean they actually believe it, or condone it. 

Blaendulais

Gassage said:

fretmeister said:

Brize said:

fretmeister said:

I always amazed when a gay man uses the phrase "woke" as an insult when there is a significant proportion of humans who think that gay people having any rights at all is "woke."

There's hardly anyone who thinks that gay people having rights is 'woke'. In the UK, for example, homosexuality is now perfectly mainstream, and in countries where homosexuality is illegal or otherwise frowned up, there is no such concept as 'woke' because such ideas would never even get a foothold.

Semantics of woke is not a good argument.

The fact that other countries describe those who support the rights of others in a different way does not change the concept.

Bleeding Heart Liberals was a previous version. Language changes over time.

I can name 3 people in my extended family who thinks the OP shouldn’t have any rights at all. Their views on trans people are even worse.

And that is precisely why Gervais needs to parody these idiots. He is holding a mirror up to society and the only thing that is objectionable is the mirrored image.

Strongly agreeing with this.  

Blaendulais

Worrying mental health statistic.

I dont believe that incidence tho from the studies I have seen its considerably smaller.

rsvmark

Cheers @gassage Just watched it and did have a good chuckle.

Sporky

LastMantra said:

Just because someone says something on stage doesn't mean they actually believe it, or condone it.

I don't have much respect for liars. If you get up on stage - outside of acting - then you are saying what you're saying. Otherwise it's just an easy excuse; be as cunty as you like, and then "it was just a joke when I said I hope you get cancer and die in agony in front of your family".

I seem to recall Stuart Lee made exactly this point about Richard Hammond. 

CaseOfAce

9 pages. Easily…

Strangefan

Sporky said:

LastMantra said:

Just because someone says something on stage doesn't mean they actually believe it, or condone it.

I don't have much respect for liars. If you get up on stage - outside of acting - then you are saying what you're saying. Otherwise it's just an easy excuse; be as cunty as you like, and then "it was just a joke when I said I hope you get cancer and die in agony in front of your family".

I seem to recall Stuart Lee made exactly this point about Richard Hammond.

What a daft way to look at an art form. 

RocknRollDave

I'm with James Acaster on this one.

LastMantra

Sporky said:

LastMantra said:

Just because someone says something on stage doesn't mean they actually believe it, or condone it.

I don't have much respect for liars. If you get up on stage - outside of acting - then you are saying what you're saying. Otherwise it's just an easy excuse; be as cunty as you like, and then "it was just a joke when I said I hope you get cancer and die in agony in front of your family".

I seem to recall Stuart Lee made exactly this point about Richard Hammond. 

It is acting really. I think  the thing for these comedians is judging where the line is, how far they can push. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they don't. I guess it's up to the viewer to decide.

rlw

Paul_C said:

I knew I shouldn't have looked at this thread.

As someone who knows a number of trans people and sees daily the sort of shit they have to put up with, I'm not going to stick around with people who think that abusing them is "funny", and passing off any complaint as woke is bullshit.

It's a shame we can't be nicer to each other, but there you go.

Who is abusing anyone ?  Having a different view isn’t abuse as far as I know.

DefaultM

I've not watched it, and I've not read any of this thread but my wife said to me today "apparently Netflix have done another Ricky Gervais special and it's very transphobic".
I said I can't stand Ricky Gervais but I highly doubt it's in any way transphobic. Then there was a deafening silence, so I'll probably find out what that meant in a few days.

TeleMaster

DefaultM said:

I've not watched it, and I've not read any of this thread but my wife said to me today "apparently Netflix have done another Ricky Gervais special and it's very transphobic".
I said I can't stand Ricky Gervais but I highly doubt it's in any way transphobic. Then there was a deafening silence, so I'll probably find out what that meant in a few days.

I mean, it kinda is. The issue here is that you have someone who doesn't really have any expertise in a field, speaking like they do with conviction and authority, to a huge audience who lap it up.

Giving an opinion is one thing, knowing what you're talking about is another. I don't think he has the faintest clue about this subject. 

DefaultM

Well if it was and this is the end of his career I won't lose any sleep.

Philly_Q

I've just watched it.  I have to say, for the first 15 minutes or so - which is where he makes most of the trans and woke references - I found it quite uncomfortable.  I was thinking this is pretty unpleasant, does he really mean this...?

But then he starts joking about AIDS and Hitler and fat people and medical conditions and paedophiles... and it's funny.  I thought it was funny.  And then I thought well, he clearly doesn't mean any of this, he doesn't think these things are funny in "real life".  So why should I think the things he was saying half an hour ago were any different? 

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe he's hugely transphobic, but I don't think so.  I think he's just saying "if it's OK for me to joke about this, then what justification is there for me thinking it's unacceptable to joke about that?".

It's a lot like the Jimmy Carr special which caused a stir a few months back.  He's setting out to shock, to push boundaries, to make people feel bad for laughing at things they feel they shouldn't laugh at.  To challenge the audience, to challenge himself, in a way.  And also like the Carr show, he explains or justifies some of the jokes.  He says things like "this'll be edited out".  The big difference is he's a much better performer than Jimmy Carr.

It does feel a bit lazy at times, he constantly changes subject, there's not really much of a theme.  "It's just a joke" is sometimes too easy as a get-out clause.  But a lot of it is funny.

Philly_Q

Coming back to the trans jokes... do they work?  No, not really.  I don't think it's because Ricky Gervais is transphobic, I don't think it's because he doesn't have expertise in the subject - you don't need to be an expert to make a joke, any more than you need to be an expert to have an opinion.  

Maybe for a joke to really work it has to be inclusive, it has to unite the audience.  If you joke about an extremely unpopular public figure, there's probably almost no-one in the audience getting angry or offended.  A fat guy can laugh at a fat joke, if it's not too cruel.  A gay guy may recognise something about himself in a joke and laugh.  But nowadays, people aren't defined by being fat or gay; it's just a part of who they are, they're still, thank God, generally accepted as part of the crowd, just like anyone else. 

Trans is different.  I think perhaps it's too current, too polarising a topic.  It provokes real hatred and anger, from both sides of the argument.  Almost like Brexit, but with a deeply personal element.

A decade or two ago, nobody knew a trans person... they were a mild curiosity, an occasional story in the Sunday papers.  Now trans folk are more visible, they're perceived as being "everywhere".  There's a lot more support and understanding, but also a lot more fear and prejudice.  Even, in some quarters, a denial of their very existence, or right to exist.  Once someone comes out as trans, that's all they are, people see the "trans" but not the "person".

With all that going on, I suspect it's quite hard for trans folk to join in the laughter when they're the butt of a joke about "a woman with a big beard and a penis".  Maybe in twenty years or so, that joke will work.  Or maybe it won't.

Sporky

Strangefan said:

What a daft way to look at an art form. 

What a weak, unsubstantiated, mindless response. 

Ooh. This is much easier than presenting a reasoned counter argument! Fun! 

CavemanGrogg

I can't remember who said it, nor the exact phrasing, but i'm reminded of the quote,  ''Politicians use truths to tell lies, whee as artists use lies to tell truths''.

Stratavarious

Gandalph said:

fretmeister said:

Gandalph said:

Paul_C said:

I knew I shouldn't have looked at this thread.

As someone who knows a number of trans people and sees daily the sort of shit they have to put up with, I'm not going to stick around with people who think that abusing them is "funny", and passing off any complaint as woke is bullshit.

It's a shame we can't be nicer to each other, but there you go.

Tell them to man up and grow a pair. 

Oh hang on....

Really?

Yes really. 

Remember when you used to be able to tell a joke without offending everyone. 

And no before you start I don't dislike or have any issue whatsoever with transgender people. 

Live and let live as long  as you are  not harming anyone else. 

Woke people on the other hand, I do have a problem with. 

I'll happily tell or share an offensive joke just to ruffle their precious little feathers. 

As you have no issues.. maybe come and meet me and my trans sister.  Tell us some of your ‘jokes’.   

I can PM you a time and place.  Perhaps where her trans partner is buried… relentlessly bullied and abused by bastards and their ‘jokes’.

Beta personality cowards can hide their old school bigotry behind the new ‘anti woke’ rhetoric.. and the ‘it’s just a joke’ lines.

Just a bunch of nasty wankers and bullies with a new way to hurt others.  We see it daily and it is getting worse and more violent.

On second thoughts.. why not just f*** off!

Roland

Closed to allow participants to cool down. It’s an important discussion, but aggressive posting doesn’t further the conversation.