Triple-bend truss rod tools

thomasross20

I managed to find me 4mm Larrivee truss rod tool. Priceless, this thing.... because the block makes access difficult, this snakes right under and up again and can tweak it with the strings on!

https://www.larrivee.com/shop/truss-rod-wrench

Now.... I need a similar one but 5mm hex ball end for the Avalon!
The Avalon guys use this:
https://www.rowland-tools.co.uk/collections/bondhus/products/bs5mm-bondhus-balldriver

But you practically have to take your strings off to use it. 110% prefer the triple-bend tools. 

--> For the life of me, I cannot find a triple-bend 5mm hex-ball tool. Don't suppose anybody knows of any?

GTC

The old Larrivee truss rod should do the job. This is 3/16" - a shade under 5mm (4.78mm). I had a quick look and found it here - https://www.jp-guitars.co.uk/sales/tools/setting_up/larrivee_truss_rod_wrench_old_style.htm 

The one used on newer Larrivee's is 3.97mm (5/32")

I've used the old one on my Avalon S7-OAK although I was a bit worried initially about damaging the hex head due to the slightly smaller size

ICBM

GTC said:

The old Larrivee truss rod should do the job. This is 3/16" - a shade under 5mm (4.78mm). I had a quick look and found it here - https://www.jp-guitars.co.uk/sales/tools/setting_up/larrivee_truss_rod_wrench_old_style.htm 

The one used on newer Larrivee's is 3.97mm (5/32")

I've used the old one on my Avalon S7-OAK although I was a bit worried initially about damaging the hex head due to the slightly smaller size

Don't worry about that, worry about damaging the socket in the truss rod nut... that's a whole world of trouble if you then can't get the nut out to replace it.

Luckily, the difference between 3/16" and 5mm is small enough for it not to seem to be a problem - the really serious issue is with 1/8" vs 3mm. Fender use 1/8" on the USA Standard type guitars, and a 3mm key *will* damage them - which is a very major problem because the nut is retained behind a glued-in wooden plug which has to be removed to replace the nut, and is impossible without causing damage. Very poor design decision.

thomasross20

Ouch - imagine damaging the truss rod. 
Now I'm a bit wary but if the 3/16" does it....... I just don't see how Avalon can use the tool they suggested as even with the strings off the block seems to be in the way of the truss rod hole. 

BTW how is the S&-OAK ? That was an absolute beauty... 

GTC

thomasross20 said:

BTW how is the S7-OAK ? That was an absolute beauty... 

The S7-OAK has matured very nicely - redwood tops do take a while to open up. I did actually decide to give a Tonerite a try and am now a convert. I mainly play nylon-strung classicals nowadays so I was thinking of selling it. However, it just took playing it for a few minutes for the first time in ages to make me realise I must have been mad to even consider selling it.

I've used the old Larrivee tool (cautiously) on both Avalons and Lowdens without problems.

TheMadMick

I complained to Avalon that they'd put the Velcro over the truss rod adjustment hole and said I couldn't understand why they would want to do that. Surely, truss rod adjustment was a simple user feature.

They sent me a fresh piece of Velcro and two standard 5mm Allen keys. Methinks that's what they might use. I also tried to find something longer but was not successful - mind you, I wasn't desperate.

thomasross20

TheMadMick said:

I complained to Avalon that they'd put the Velcro over the truss rod adjustment hole and said I couldn't understand why they would want to do that. Surely, truss rod adjustment was a simple user feature.

They sent me a fresh piece of Velcro and two standard 5mm Allen keys. Methinks that's what they might use. I also tried to find something longer but was not successful - mind you, I wasn't desperate.

You were able to get to the rod with a standard tool? 

thomasross20

GTC said:

thomasross20 said:

BTW how is the S7-OAK ? That was an absolute beauty... 

The S7-OAK has matured very nicely - redwood tops do take a while to open up. I did actually decide to give a Tonerite a try and am now a convert. I mainly play nylon-strung classicals nowadays so I was thinking of selling it. However, it just took playing it for a few minutes for the first time in ages to make me realise I must have been mad to even consider selling it.

I've used the old Larrivee tool (cautiously) on both Avalons and Lowdens without problems.

Tonerite - never have tried one!! Glad the guitar is going great!

Soupman

Lowden's website states to use a 5mm Allen key for their truss rods. I would use this instead of an imperial size. 

TheMadMick

thomasross20 said:

TheMadMick said:

I complained to Avalon that they'd put the Velcro over the truss rod adjustment hole and said I couldn't understand why they would want to do that. Surely, truss rod adjustment was a simple user feature.

They sent me a fresh piece of Velcro and two standard 5mm Allen keys. Methinks that's what they might use. I also tried to find something longer but was not successful - mind you, I wasn't desperate.

You were able to get to the rod with a standard tool? 

Haven't needed to go there yet, but the way the guitar is settling down it may not be long before I need to. I have a small annoying buzz in the middle of the B string.

FelineGuitars

TheMadMick said:

I complained to Avalon that they'd put the Velcro over the truss rod adjustment hole and said I couldn't understand why they would want to do that. Surely, truss rod adjustment was a simple user feature.

They sent me a fresh piece of Velcro and two standard 5mm Allen keys. Methinks that's what they might use. I also tried to find something longer but was not successful - mind you, I wasn't desperate.

I dealt with Avalon when they were operating under the Lowden banner in 1998 and asked then about a tool for the truss rod and they said that guitars had to be shipped back to the factory in Ireland . What utter nonsense as it could be that things may shift going back and forth anyway and not to think of the inconvenience or cost to do so. A certain amount of hubris seemed to be in play at the time - hope they have improved.

GTC

When I first got my S7, I took it into my trusty tech wizard Dino to optimise the set-up. He used a standard 5mm Allen key cut down - first removing the strings at the bridge end by slackening them and removing the bridge pins (you can't do this with a Lowden because of the through bridge) - and then reaching inside under the brace to access the hex socket with a standard 5mm Allen key specially cut down, reportedly accompanied by a lot of cursing.

I then found the old Larrivee tool on eBay and have used that cautiously on both Lowdens and Avalons. I always slacken strings before adjustment as part of the caution. I've never had a problem although it is still fiddly.

I came across these short Z-shaped Allen keys on Amazon which look like they could help https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shaped-Allen-Keys-5mm-Pack/dp/B074ZS5RT6/ref=sr_1_267?crid=14FHWXNVHC3XF&keywords=angled%2B5mm%2Ballen%2Bkey&qid=1654553172&sprefix=angled%2B5mm%2Ballen%2Bkey%2Caps%2C55&sr=8-267&th=1 . They come in a pack of 50! THey seem as they could at least do half the job of the Larrivee tool.

ICBM

Those Z-shaped ones come with almost every piece of Ikea furniture . Although I can’t remember which specific ones have 4mm and which have 5mm - they use both.

TheMadMick

ICBM said:

Those Z-shaped ones come with almost every piece of Ikea furniture . Although I can’t remember which specific ones have 4mm and which have 5mm - they use both.

I have a small collection of those. I'll try to remember next time I go to tweak a truss rod.

Tannin

A few years back, the EU rounded up all the mobile phone manufacturers and said "There are 57 different, incompatible phone chargers and sockets. You lot can put your heads together and agree on a single universal charger standard, or we are going to come in and start knocking heads together. Your call."

Result: the phone makers all stared using USB sockets. Problem solved.

Maybe the EU should have a look at truss rod keys!

Dave_Mc

Tannin said:

A few years back, the EU rounded up all the mobile phone manufacturers and said "There are 57 different, incompatible phone chargers and sockets. You lot can put your heads together and agree on a single universal charger standard, or we are going to come in and start knocking heads together. Your call."

Result: the phone makers all stared using USB sockets. Problem solved.

Maybe the EU should have a look at truss rod keys!

I thought that was going to turn into that joke- "Now there are 58 different, incompatible phone chargers and sockets"! 

thomasross20

Great info in this thread. 

May I also add that real men play acoustic. I find it a much more demanding instrument than electric in most senses. 

Finally, and maybe I should start a separate thread, I contacted a guitar repair guy in Edinburgh but have had just one reply from him so not sure about using his services but I am getting open strong buzz seemingly coming from the bridge. Another thing for me to check out.

guitarjack66

Tannin said:

A few years back, the EU rounded up all the mobile phone manufacturers and said "There are 57 different, incompatible phone chargers and sockets. You lot can put your heads together and agree on a single universal charger standard, or we are going to come in and start knocking heads together. Your call."

Result: the phone makers all stared using USB sockets. Problem solved.

Maybe the EU should have a look at truss rod keys!

There has been another change to that shape now,given the difference between my old phone and my current one.

thomasross20

Ended up taking the guitar to somebody re the buzz, even re open string play. Seems to me, to be coming from the bridge. Electrics' wires not touching the body. Odd. I'll pick it up after hols - guy thought was just need truss rod tweak but I'm doubtful so will see. Also putting 11s on - 12s are too heavy for my weedy hands

Also decided, whilst in the area, to take a trip to local guitar shop. I didn't look at a single electric. The store in Glasgow is better humidified etc - was a shame to see quality acoustic with old strings as doesn't bring out the best in the instrument. Anyway.... got to try some big names (with big prices) that I've wanted to try for a while. Lowden, Goodall, Atkin.. Maton, some Taylors, a few Martins were good. But none of them could match my £650 Larrivee OM-O2 and the bargain I got in my Avalon L2-230. My Avalon was better than the Lowdens and Goodall hands-down. I'd actually like to visit the factory now. 

GAS is odd. I am the guitar seller's worst nightmare because I rarely buy - I just play what I've got. For weeks and just completely out of the blue, I started researching what's new, listening to this and that and getting it in my head I need something new. I don't! 

Some guy was RIPPING it on electric guitar when I was in. Was pretty cool ... but I much prefer just one person and their acoustic, with some singing these days. I was way more content sitting playing the acoustics then I ever was playing single-note lead lines on an electric.

Tannin

guitarjack66 said:

Tannin said:

Result: the phone makers all stared using USB sockets. Problem solved.

There has been another change to that shape now,given the difference between my old phone and my current one.

Yes. The people who invented the stupid mish-mash of USB sockets should have a USB connecter repeatedly shoved up an unmentionable bit, and I don't mean a micro-USB connector, I mean full-on USB-A.

USB-A could have been a perfectly sensible connector. However that they (a) didn't even try to make it reversible, and (b) made no attempt to make it visually obvious which way round it went, and (c) committed the hopeless idiocy of also having USB-B for no good reason at all. (You will have seen USB-B on printer cables. Nothing much else ever used it.) Result, trillions of wasted minutes. If you added up all the time people have spent in the last 20 years fumbling around trying to get a USB plug in without knowing which way round it goes - never mind all the broken sockets in computers - just take those wasted minutes and pay them out at a modest $10 USD an hour. We are talking billions of dollars worth of wasted time. Possibly trillions, all because of a few brain-dead designers a quarter of a century ago.

Then we have the incomprehensible idiocy of having not one but two different, incompatible small USB connectors: mini-USB and micro-USB. One was fair enough and even useful. There is absolutely no justification for having two of them. None. At least you could tell at a glance which way up mini-USB goes. Shame about the particularly stupid micro-USB plug.

And then we get to USB-C. Finally, finally, finally we get the USB socket we should have had in 1996. Sadly, it looks very, very similar to the daft but very common micro-USB and people are forever trying to fit the wrong plug in the wrong socket. Still. More than a quarter of a century and the idiots running the USB Implementers Forum still haven't got it right.

Meanwhile, some news. The very next morning after I posted that thing about the EU and the phone manufacturers, the EU announced that the one and only recalcitrant company still holding out and refusing to use the convenient, consumer-friendly standard connector every other phone on the planet uses and has used for years would be, from now, required to do so or else bugger off out of the entire European market. We are talking about Apple, of course. 

@guitarjack66, chances are that your old phone uses micro-USB and your new one uses USB-C. But you only need a new chord or an adaptor, not a whole new charger. Electrically the two connectors are the same, so you can theoretically use the same charger. (In practice, new phones often fast-charge if there is enough current available, and ship with a high-capacity charger. It will charge an old phone just fine, but the old low-capacity charger, if you use it with your new phone, might take 10 hours to do what the new one does in 50 minutes.)

thomasross20

Big shout out for JA Guitar Repairs in Edinburgh. 
Other companies didn't even bother replying but John was very friendly and professional. 
Got my guitar back after holiday and it was perfect - truss rod just needed tweaked.
And I got 11s put on so it's much easier to play (sounded a bit better with 12s but hey ho)

Said it was the most difficult one he's had to tweak due to the block being in the way - so definitely either a triple-bend tool or repeatedly tuning up / down strings and reaching in with the short end of the tool. 

Anyway - all sorted!