Country picking - where the mags / youtube tutorials fall short...

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CaseOfAceCaseOfAce Frets: 1307
Horrendous mullets aside - take a look at this (first 1.13  and 1.48)...

It's a pretty standard D G  A  (I IV V) country backing - but it's the way Marty Stuart and his wingman play the changes and fill the space - a constant flurry of notes.

This is where most of the online / mag stuff falls short - it shows you how to "play this lick...then learn this other lick" but in terms of putting it all together into a half minute solo - you are on your own?

Anyone on here able to do this sort of stuff and any advice.? I'm guessing it's mostly hammering onto thirds or roots to do the changes and CAGED stuff? Chromatics or enclosures? And what about filling the space?


...she's got Dickie Davies eyes...
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Comments

  • RolandRoland Frets: 8590
    Marty Stuart takes the first solo, which is mostly CAGED based. (Watch Guthrie Trapp for an explanation). His wingman takes the second, which is more modal with lots of mannerisms. He takes a partial scale pattern which fits the chord, and lets his fingers play patterns which they’ve been using for years. The third is something scalar which they’ve worked out and memorised, each playing unison or harmony at different positions on the neck.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • koss59koss59 Frets: 845
    No modes or scales really used solely there.
    It’s a mixture of chromatic runs based off arpeggios and pentatonic stuff mainly.
    You’re dead right with the thirds being important though and it’s a must to hammer or slide from the minor to major third for each chord played.

    The first two solos are really the same kind of approach but they sound different to each other just because they’re different players.

    The third one is a hammer on chromatic run starting from the open root, jumps to the third and chromatically goes up to the 5th. This is then played in harmony.

    https://youtu.be/_82jM6HCMRU

    https://youtu.be/CnLKcb9p7gA

    Here’s a couple of my videos playing country changes if you want to ask any questions on specific parts.

    Hope that kind of helps!
    Facebook.com/nashvillesounduk/
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  • CaseOfAceCaseOfAce Frets: 1307
    edited June 2022
    koss59 said:
    No modes or scales really used solely there.
    It’s a mixture of chromatic runs based off arpeggios and pentatonic stuff mainly.
    You’re dead right with the thirds being important though and it’s a must to hammer or slide from the minor to major third for each chord played.

    The first two solos are really the same kind of approach but they sound different to each other just because they’re different players.

    The third one is a hammer on chromatic run starting from the open root, jumps to the third and chromatically goes up to the 5th. This is then played in harmony.

    https://youtu.be/_82jM6HCMRU

    https://youtu.be/CnLKcb9p7gA

    Here’s a couple of my videos playing country changes if you want to ask any questions on specific parts.

    Hope that kind of helps!
    you sir have mad skills.

    that is very impressive.
    I bet you're first call for country bands in your neck of the woods?
    ...she's got Dickie Davies eyes...
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  • guitarjack66guitarjack66 Frets: 1797
    edited June 2022
    What gives country music it's distinctive sound? Apart from deceased dogs and unfaithful wives that is.
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  • koss59koss59 Frets: 845

    you sir have mad skills.

    that is very impressive.
    I bet you're first call for country bands in your neck of the woods?
    That’s very kind of you to say! Thanks.
    I actually don’t do many country gigs at the moment and tend to play mainly soul, pop, funk etc like everyone else making a living at it.
    I’ve loved it for 20 odd years though and realised what an important style it was even from Beatles to Zeppelin records heavily influenced by it.
    Facebook.com/nashvillesounduk/
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  • TanninTannin Frets: 5268
    Loved the third solo with the two of them playing the same line in harmony. Different and fun!
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  • idiotwindidiotwind Frets: 387
    Also worth noting that Marty is using a B-Bender (actually the B-Bender - it's Clarence White's original) to get lots of bends in there smoothly.  You can see the strap button moving up and down in his solo
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  • BradBrad Frets: 658
    Broadly speaking, the 1st solo really plays the changes, playing out of each chord. 

    The second less so, more minor pentatonic derived. That doesn’t make it worse, just a different approach. 

    What they both have in common is vocabulary. I’m gonna hazard a guess that neither of them learnt licks from a magazine/online… they will have learned licks no doubt, but also entire solos and just that style of music in general. If they did learn licks, they’d have developed many ways to manipulate them over time, how to connect them to chord changes etc so they come out naturally.  

    If you can, learn these solos. You’ll get a lot more mileage out of them and an idea of how to approach this style of playing. 

    Different style, but the sentiment applies and might just help with those licks you do learn from a magazine/online etc

    https://youtu.be/_oxlQsZtCDE


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  • RockerRocker Frets: 4947
    That sort of playing, while impressive technically, is nothing short of pure drivel from the listeners perspective.  How it got lumped in with 'Country music' is hard to say but Country music is fundamentally White Mans Blues.  The song is the main element, guitar and fiddles are used to enhance the vocal presentation.  In the highlighted example above, the song is only a vehicle for the guitar players to show off.  There is nothing in the song and nothing in the guitar playing either so the listener gets nothing from the performance.

    I realize that this thread was started by someone who wants to know how the guitar parts are played.  But it is important to point out the fact that Country music is about heartache, unrequited love, loss, hobos etc. etc.  If you want to know what real Country sounds like, Google The Outlaws or Johnny Cash or Merle Haggard or Charlie Pride or others of that ilk.
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

    Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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  • koss59koss59 Frets: 845
    Rocker said:
    That sort of playing, while impressive technically, is nothing short of pure drivel from the listeners perspective.  How it got lumped in with 'Country music' is hard to say but Country music is fundamentally White Mans Blues.  The song is the main element, guitar and fiddles are used to enhance the vocal presentation.  In the highlighted example above, the song is only a vehicle for the guitar players to show off.  There is nothing in the song and nothing in the guitar playing either so the listener gets nothing from the performance.

    I realize that this thread was started by someone who wants to know how the guitar parts are played.  But it is important to point out the fact that Country music is about heartache, unrequited love, loss, hobos etc. etc.  If you want to know what real Country sounds like, Google The Outlaws or Johnny Cash or Merle Haggard or Charlie Pride or others of that ilk.
    Long before the outlaw county stuff that you mention, there were lots of occasions where people showed off their technical ability from decades before.
    Whether that was in bluegrass, Western Swing or Country and Western.
    Musicians were even featured on television programs playing instrumental songs showing off their impressive speed and technique.

    I can’t stand the Pet Shop boys but they sell loads of albums so can’t be shite. 
    These guys have also sold loads of albums and still tour the world to huge crowds so maybe it’s just not to your taste?

    It’s not the same stuff as Haggard, Jennings and Nelson, it’s a different style completely.
    Facebook.com/nashvillesounduk/
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  • BillDLBillDL Frets: 7041
    I don't think anybody could argue and suggest that Hank Snow did not play and sing country music, but that style of music is very different from The "Bakersfield" style of country (as mentioned above - Merle Haggard, etc).  There are a lot of different styles of music wrapped up as "country" just the same as there are a great many styles wrapped up as "blues" (Delta, Chicago, Country Blues, etc).  The styles evolved through the years like other forms of music have.  To say that one style is not really "country" or "blues" because it doesn't conform to a particular style that you prefer and regard as the true style is like saying that Chop Suey isn't really proper Chinese food.

    If you watch a lot of the old country bands that comprise acoustic guitar, (double) bass, fiddle, pedal steel, etc, you can easily hear where the distinct sound of Telecaster country string bending and double-stopping came from.  All it took was the electric guitar and suitable amplification to adapt the pedal steel sound and "modernise" it.  I've watched plenty old black and white videos of country pedal steel players taking a lengthy solo and being applauded for it. 
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  • TanninTannin Frets: 5268
    Having watched the video in the OP, You-tube handed me a clip featuring Kenny Vaughn (Marty's sideman in that clip). I'd never heard of him but it turns out that he's played all sorts of genres with all sorts of people from country through the Pretenders though jazz and back. The clip runs for over an hour but he's a good, relaxed talker, well interviewed, and it held my interest all the way through. 


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  • guitarjack66guitarjack66 Frets: 1797
    My late Dad was a country and western fan and listened to all those artists mentioned,such as Merle Haggard,Charlie Pride,Johnny Cash etc,but I have grown up to dislike that music in the main.Probably not cool liking the same music as your parents. In the same way that my Mum would drag me to Church every Sunday has made me despise religion. But while you may not like the genre you can still admire the skill of the musicians performing it.
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  • PoboyPoboy Frets: 431
    Not sure how else to bookmark this so leaving a comment. 
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  • BillDLBillDL Frets: 7041
    @Poboy ; I don't know how the pages look on a smartphone, but on a computer using Firefox browser if you scroll to the top and look to the right of the thread heading you should see the outline of a star.  Click in it and it will turn yellow/gold.  You will then receive notifications of all new posts.  If you are looking at the full list of "Recent Discussions" you will also see the star between the "discussion" column and "started by" column.  You can click on the star there to bookmark it.  Clicking on the yellowed star in "My Bookmarks" or anywhere else you see it will remove it as a bookmark.
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  • PoboyPoboy Frets: 431
    Thanks chap....
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  • DeftDeft Frets: 30
    Tannin said:
    Having watched the video in the OP, You-tube handed me a clip featuring Kenny Vaughn (Marty's sideman in that clip). I'd never heard of him but it turns out that he's played all sorts of genres with all sorts of people from country through the Pretenders though jazz and back. The clip runs for over an hour but he's a good, relaxed talker, well interviewed, and it held my interest all the way through.
    One of my favourite guitarists, his solo stuff is very much country be he has played with all sorts of people including Lucinda Williams:


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