Daisy Tempest On Andertons - Interesting Video

darthed1981

bertie said:

darthed1981 said:

Well I do wish her luck, sounds like she both loves her job and cares about her work, we should all be so lucky!

I do

You want to marry her?

bertie

darthed1981 said:

bertie said:

darthed1981 said:

Well I do wish her luck, sounds like she both loves her job and cares about her work, we should all be so lucky!

I do

You want to marry her?

no ya wazzzuk  

I love my job and care about my work  

(perhaps I should've edited the quote) 

darthed1981

bertie said:

darthed1981 said:

bertie said:

darthed1981 said:

Well I do wish her luck, sounds like she both loves her job and cares about her work, we should all be so lucky!

I do

You want to marry her?

no ya wazzzuk  

I love my job and care about my work  

(perhaps I should've edited the quote) 

Oh I see, well, I'm glad for you mate.

bertie

darthed1981 said:

Oh I see, well, I'm glad for you mate.

it started off being a "joke"  but lost its way somewhat...........................................I know the feeling

BillDL

So does Joe Lycett

darthed1981

BillDL said:

So does Joe Lycett

Hideously off-topic, but the police investigating that is terrifyingly Orwellian.  We live in, Orwellian Times, as a great man once said.

The guy/girl who went to a comedy show and reported one of the jokes to the police can seriously go fuck themselves.

steveh

earwighoney said:

She has an incredible number of followers. I thought of who might be considered to be at the top of the tree for steel strings, first name to pop into my head is Jason Kostal, he has around 5k followers, Daisy Tempest has 5 times the number!

What do you think of the quality of her work Steve? 

Yes, I noticed that: Zillions of followers compared to someone like Jason who, I agree completely, is "at the top of the tree". 
However, I suspect the vast majority are unlikely to be dropping 6K on a steel-string and aren't there for the lutherie thrills. Rather, they're there for the "young-woman-doing well-in-a-man's-craft" vibes, and I must applaud her for that.

Regarding the quality of her work, I have no idea - there are only two finished guitars.
It's also difficult to predict because she was with Tom and Rosie for limited time: Tom was with Somogyi for > 2 years.
Also, Tom and Rosie build rather different instruments to each other (accepting that both are modern steel-strings), so even if Tempest can build as well, I'd find it hard to predict their flavour without playing.
In any event, she's going to have to be pretty damn good to justify the price hike over some of the other luthiers mentioned here.

earwighoney said:

 the video of you playing a Bown OM was vital for when I chose Amazon Rosewood for my 00 build a few years back! 

I recall you had a Woodfield guitar at one point right?  

Ralph is a great contrast as it happens: ZERO social media activity, not even a website. Hundreds of guitars under his belt, and a long line of people outside his front door. Only a little more expensive than Tempest.

Philip also (still playing the Woodfield): He has loads of international players using his guitars, barely any social media activity, and costs LESS than Tempest (and most of the uber-steel-string brigade). I commissioned another a while back but still waiting - his current list is over 5 years. Quality lutherie is more than YouTube and Insta.

Steel-string pricing has got completely out of hand over the last few years, a lot driven by TNAG and their hyping new builders +++, then driving the price up to accommodate their margin. Sands, Turnstone and Taran prices all doubled within a short while of joining, plus VAT as well. Yet at the same time we have nylon builders like Ambridge, Woodfield, Aram, Dean, Gee etc., all with huge international reputations, and all selling guitars for half a TNAG steel-string builder or even less, depending. Insane.

earwighoney

steveh

 said:Yes, I noticed that: Zillions of followers compared to someone like Jason who, I agree completely, is "at the top of the tree". 
However, I suspect the vast majority are unlikely to be dropping 6K on a steel-string and aren't there for the lutherie thrills. Rather, they're there for the "young-woman-doing well-in-a-man's-craft" vibes, and I must applaud her for that.

Regarding the quality of her work, I have no idea - there are only two finished guitars.
It's also difficult to predict because she was with Tom and Rosie for limited time: Tom was with Somogyi for > 2 years.
Also, Tom and Rosie build rather different instruments to each other (accepting that both are modern steel-strings), so even if Tempest can build as well, I'd find it hard to predict their flavour without playing.
In any event, she's going to have to be pretty damn good to justify the price hike over some of the other luthiers mentioned here.

Philip also (still playing the Woodfield): He has loads of international players using his guitars, barely any social media activity, and costs LESS than Tempest (and most of the uber-steel-string brigade). I commissioned another a while back but still waiting - his current list is over 5 years. Quality lutherie is more than YouTube and Insta.

Steel-string pricing has got completely out of hand over the last few years, a lot driven by TNAG and their hyping new builders +++, then driving the price up to accommodate their margin. Sands, Turnstone and Taran prices all doubled within a short while of joining, plus VAT as well. Yet at the same time we have nylon builders like Ambridge, Woodfield, Aram, Dean, Gee etc., all with huge international reputations, and all selling guitars for half a TNAG steel-string builder or even less, depending. Insane.

Yes you are spot on.  I think DT is also doing a great job at what you describe.  She seems to be the first 'influencer acoustic luthier' I can think of, maybe it will get more young females into the profession in the long run? Only time will tell. 

Is your Woodfield fan or lattice braced?  I don't really have much expertise in the UK side of classical guitars, but I'm aware of some of the ones you mentioned, and occasionally when I have come across a YT video of one, I have loved the sound of them.

I'm in agreement about steel string prices going through the roof. Not just the luthiers you have mentioned, but also mass producers like Martin. A standard D28 is now £3k. The new 0-28 is £4.5k, which seems incredible all things considered.

For some of the modern TNAG builders some of those instruments seem to have such incredibly complex construction methods, I have nothing but respect for those luthiers. In contrast I also quite like the appeal of a simple lattice braced spruce/cypress nylon strung guitar....
You're right about the TNAG effect as well, in addition they also merged with Carters, a few at the Martin forum were suggesting it's the start of vintage Martin prices ramping up quickly as well, I think they pointed to a few wartime small bodies which until a few years ago weren't massively expensive had rocketed.

BillDL

An April 2022 Daisy Tempest video just popped up in my YouTube  "recommended" list, so I decided to have a look.  I won't be watching any more.  At the very outset she explains "Just before I go any further I should note that I'm not a guitar repair person, I'm a guitar builder - a luthier".  I got a strong whiff of supremacy in that statement and from her tone, whether it was an intentional snooty put-down or not.  I was tempted to stop and close at that point.

My contention is that you cannot build guitars unless you have a strong appreciation for issues that commonly affect guitars and necessitate repairs, and if you intend designing your own guitars it is worthwhile knowing why those issues occur and what design features might prevent these issues from happening on your own models, or at least you should try and mitigate them.  As a "luthier" you need to be prepared to be a "repair person" and deal with warranty repairs competently and in a cost effective manner.  Not every repair is going to involve removing the soundboard or back for easy access and then a rebuild and refinish.

I eventually stopped the video after seeing her pointing a heat gun from a distance at the bridge that still had the saddle in the slot, prising it off with her new unused repair spatulas without protecting the top and in a way that fortunately didn't leave half the spruce stuck to the underside of the saddle, and sanding the bridge from side to side on the bellied top instead of back and forward.  I am neither a trained or qualified repair technician or luthier, but I have enough experience to be left feeling uncomfortable enough that I would not be tempted to buy one of her guitars even if I could afford one.

Mellish

Very interesting observation, Bill. Not seen that video but will search  for it  

darthed1981

BillDL said:

An April 2022 Daisy Tempest video just popped up in my YouTube  "recommended" list, so I decided to have a look.  I won't be watching any more.  At the very outset she explains "Just before I go any further I should note that I'm not a guitar repair person, I'm a guitar builder - a luthier".  I got a strong whiff of supremacy in that statement and from her tone, whether it was an intentional snooty put-down or not.  I was tempted to stop and close at that point.

My contention is that you cannot build guitars unless you have a strong appreciation for issues that commonly affect guitars and necessitate repairs, and if you intend designing your own guitars it is worthwhile knowing why those issues occur and what design features might prevent these issues from happening on your own models, or at least you should try and mitigate them.  As a "luthier" you need to be prepared to be a "repair person" and deal with warranty repairs competently and in a cost effective manner.  Not every repair is going to involve removing the soundboard or back for easy access and then a rebuild and refinish.

I suspect in a male-dominated industry she has had to develop a certain presence to succeed, I wouldn't necessarily hold it against her.

Be nice if we could get her as a member actually, the more pros we have on TFB the better.

mgaw

All show was the impression I got from her.  She hasn’t done the time to get the skills to charge that huge amount of money. 

Social media froth. 

darthed1981

mgaw said:

All show was the impression I got from her.  She hasn’t done the time to get the skills to charge that huge amount of money. 

I don't think anyone can justify that amount for a guitar personally, but YMMV.

Ultimately the market decides, at 6k plus a pop she won't last long unless her feedback is absolutely stellar.

mgaw

I can’t help but feel she is using the Luthier title as a vehicle .  If she truly loved building guitars she would be …,… building guitars

TheMadMick

Interesting that this thread ended up next to another asking about buying a 70's acoustic for £300 - 400?

mgaw

darthed1981 said:

BillDL said:

An April 2022 Daisy Tempest video just popped up in my YouTube  "recommended" list, so I decided to have a look.  I won't be watching any more.  At the very outset she explains "Just before I go any further I should note that I'm not a guitar repair person, I'm a guitar builder - a luthier".  I got a strong whiff of supremacy in that statement and from her tone, whether it was an intentional snooty put-down or not.  I was tempted to stop and close at that point.

My contention is that you cannot build guitars unless you have a strong appreciation for issues that commonly affect guitars and necessitate repairs, and if you intend designing your own guitars it is worthwhile knowing why those issues occur and what design features might prevent these issues from happening on your own models, or at least you should try and mitigate them.  As a "luthier" you need to be prepared to be a "repair person" and deal with warranty repairs competently and in a cost effective manner.  Not every repair is going to involve removing the soundboard or back for easy access and then a rebuild and refinish.

I suspect in a male-dominated industry she has had to develop a certain presence to succeed, I wouldn't necessarily hold it against her.

Be nice if we could get her as a member actually, the more pros we have on TFB the better.

There are some outstanding builders who happen to be female. Deeply committed to their craft like turnstone guitars , Peggy white etc. 

maybe like comparing Raymond Blanc, outstanding chef to someone like Ainsley Harriet tv personality with limited cooking skills.  

Nothing wrong with either path but AH didn’t pretend to be top flight at all.  Or indeed even a chef

barnstorm

She's selling a story rather than instruments, which will appeal to a certain sort of collector/patron. Whether there are enough of those folks to keep her in business ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, but given how hard it is to make a decent living as a luthier I can understand her having a crack at doing it this way. Tremendously irritating marketing fluff, but none of us have to engage with things we don't like.

earwighoney

mgaw said:

I can’t help but feel she is using the Luthier title as a vehicle .  If she truly loved building guitars she would be …,… building guitars

There's nothing wrong with doing things on social media, Ben Crowe of Crimson Guitars does a lot on social media, gets a lot of YT views and does an excellent job at teaching the techniques of the trade.

darthed1981 said:

I don't think anyone can justify that amount for a guitar personally, but YMMV.

There are a number of acoustic luthiers who charge £6k for their instruments. When I first saw that was her price, I thought of a guy who used to post on one of another forum I post on, who's charges about the same, his fit and finish looks as good as anything.

Have a look at his work if you have the time.

https://www.mcgreevyguitars.com/gallery

Wazmeister

I think she has started to serve an apprenticeship, and I wish her well.

I still think it’s amazing she didn’t have a model for them to demo and showcase. I’d imagine she would got a few sales from it…

mgaw

earwighoney said:

mgaw said:

I can’t help but feel she is using the Luthier title as a vehicle .  If she truly loved building guitars she would be …,… building guitars

There's nothing wrong with doing things on social media, Ben Crowe of Crimson Guitars does a lot on social media, gets a lot of YT views and does an excellent job at teaching the techniques of the trade.

darthed1981 said:

I don't think anyone can justify that amount for a guitar personally, but YMMV.

There are a number of acoustic luthiers who charge £6k for their instruments. When I first saw that was her price, I thought of a guy who used to post on one of another forum I post on, who's charges about the same, his fit and finish looks as good as anything.

Have a look at his work if you have the time.

https://www.mcgreevyguitars.com/gallery

Good example Crimson guitars especially the teaching the tricks of the trade bit.  Not sure the she has that in her arsenal

good luck to the her I say. 

It’s still Froth though