Can you buy a decent 70s acoustic for 300-400 quid?

ICBM

bertie said:

didnt some old Eko's have a bellied back ?  

Slightly - so do Guilds. In fact most flat-tops have a slightly curved back end-to-end, even if it's not arched across the width as well. It's stronger than a completely flat back.

All flat-top guitars have bellied tops too - it's inevitable once the string tension is applied. But there's a difference between a slightly arched back as a design feature, a predictable amount of top rise that's accounted for when calculating the neck angle, and what happens to slightly underbuilt tops like the Yamaha FGs had after a few decades.

The second part of the problem is that Yamaha used a synthetic glue - I think a variety of epoxy - to fit the neck, so the standard solution of resetting the neck to increase its angle is difficult and costly, much more than on a more valuable old Martin etc, and probably uneconomical in most cases. The result is that you see a lot of old FGs with the bridge (not just the saddle) shaved right down to try to get the action playable - unfortunately this also thins the tone.

Tannin

Stuckfast said:

Some of the Yairi guitars are absolutely excellent, but they are not all that common and I don't know whether you're likely to find one in your budget.

Yairis aren't Yairis. There are three Yairis:

* S Yairi - once hand-made in Japan by a master, but that was long, long ago. Now just another brand stuck on the usual cheap Chinese stuff. 

* H Yairi - S. Yairi's son, manufacturing under his own name. No longer in business. 

* K Yairi - nephew of S Yairi. Made his own guitars in his own way for many years, and damn good ones. He is no longer with us and the K Yairi brand is now part of the Alvarez empire, but (unlike other Alvarez products) is still made in Japan. K Yairi is, of course, the one to have. Second-hand, they tend to be real bargains as I suspect their name gets tainted by association with the cheap Chinese ones. 

(Don't tell everyone or the bloody price will go up.)

Andy79

ICBM said:

bertie said:

didnt some old Eko's have a bellied back ?  

Slightly - so do Guilds. In fact most flat-tops have a slightly curved back end-to-end, even if it's not arched across the width as well. It's stronger than a completely flat back.

All flat-top guitars have bellied tops too - it's inevitable once the string tension is applied. But there's a difference between a slightly arched back as a design feature, a predictable amount of top rise that's accounted for when calculating the neck angle, and what happens to slightly underbuilt tops like the Yamaha FGs had after a few decades.

The second part of the problem is that Yamaha used a synthetic glue - I think a variety of epoxy - to fit the neck, so the standard solution of resetting the neck to increase its angle is difficult and costly, much more than on a more valuable old Martin etc, and probably uneconomical in most cases. The result is that you see a lot of old FGs with the bridge (not just the saddle) shaved right down to try to get the action playable - unfortunately this also thins the tone.

I’ve had a neck off a 1971 FG-140 and it was hide glue. Just lots of it. And lots. Also there was glue on the joint between the back of the heel/body joint which is partly why I believe they are such a bastard to remove 
I can’t speak for the whole line but that particular  was constituted with non synthetic glue 

Its not a great surprise, the billions of American catalog guitars were solid wood and hide glue made, you can see it squeezed out of every joint. These days hide glue is a selling point for 5k Gibsons. Back then it was , well, glue…..

ICBM

Andy79 said:

I’ve had a neck off a 1971 FG-140 and it was hide glue. Just lots of it. And lots. Also there was glue on the joint between the back of the heel/body joint which is partly why I believe they are such a bastard to remove 

I can’t speak for the whole line but that particular  was constituted with non synthetic glue

Interesting! I've never tried to take one off personally, because the info I could find suggested something synthetic.

maltingsaudio

Fender F series well worth a look here’s my F55 from 1975 still straight and worth twice  as much as I paid for it! 

Soupman

Hey @maltingsaudio ; I've got one of those! Fender F55-12. Got a neck that makes a baseball bat seem like a shredder's dream! (The guitar, not me)    It doesn't get much use these days.

maltingsaudio

Soupman said:

Hey @maltingsaudio ; I've got one of those! Fender F55-12. Got a neck that makes a baseball bat seem like a shredder's dream! (The guitar, not me)    It doesn't get much use these days.

Cool , I still play mine regularly, it’s a 12 string so you don’t ( or I don’t) expect it to be like a6 string

ICBM

maltingsaudio said:

When I saw that pic at first on a phone I thought you’d got it strung Roger McGuinn style as a 7-string with only the octave G.

... but then realised it’s just got five black pins .

Mellish

@ICBM ; - Interesting character, Roger McGuinn.

He has an unorthodox fingerpicking style. He uses a flatpick between thumb and index and where picks would normally go he shifts them over one, at least he was doing that a few years ago  

stufisher

A bit left field and probably not what you have in mind @lovestrat74 but I've just spotted this on Gumtree.

https://www.gumtree.com/p/guitar-instrument/1981-aria-electric-acoustic-made-in-japan/1435995685

I always believed Aria to be good quality and VFM but I'm not a subject matter expert ... I think @ICBM knows about this stuff though, so might be worth a discussion if you are interested.

If not then perhaps someone else might wanna take a punt.

Stu

lovestrat74

stufisher said:

A bit left field and probably not what you have in mind @lovestrat74 but I've just spotted this on Gumtree.

https://www.gumtree.com/p/guitar-instrument/1981-aria-electric-acoustic-made-in-japan/1435995685

I always believed Aria to be good quality and VFM but I'm not a subject matter expert ... I think @ICBM knows about this stuff though, so might be worth a discussion if you are interested.

If not then perhaps someone else might wanna take a punt.

Stu

Thanks Stu but it's about 300 mile leftfield for me  Also, got a 70s Yamaha on the way..

PAL

I would suggest buying a new guitar as things have moved on since the 70s ! i would buy a Taylor GS Mini they are great
  playable consistent sounding guitars with a shorter scale.
  You will hear names form the seventies banded around and if it's just to hang on the wall then fine but if you want to play 
  something that will inspire you then go for a new one. If the Taylor is out of your budget check out the PRS SE acoustics.
  I teach guitar and do some repair work on older guitars but to be honest you can only do so much and they still have issues.
  So I suggest the Taylor and the students that buy them love them.
  I know someone mentioned K.Yairi guitars and that's what I have It's a GW 1100 I bought it when I worked in a music shop
  I was drawn to the sound and feel of the instrument this was about 1995 and I still have it I later discovered it had
  Brazilian Rosewood back and sides I also use a Japanese Takamine EN40C made in Japan these cost almost £1000
  and are really nice guitars.
  The problem buying an old acoustic is there is more you can't see that could be a problem internal bracing and struts coming
  unglued necks needing a reset because the top of the guitar has over bellied amongst other things ! These issue can 
  sometimes be resolved but can be costly and these issue don't only occur on inexpensive guitars there is a video of 
  Lee Anderton and his wife bought him a nice Martin acoustic for his birthday I think it was 1974 ! for his birth year and of
  course he was really happy but couldn't understand why many of the new guitars in his shop sounded better then when
  the Martin rep came into the shop it was pointed out that some of the bracing and struts were loose it shipped back to
   Martin in the USA and it was repaired. I think the video is still available on YouTube.
  A good YouTube channel to watch is called Rosa String Works  you can see this guy working on various acoustic
  guitars and how they are repaired it's worth watching and you will learn a lot. I hope this helps !

bugileman

Owned many over the years....Eko can be great, but like everything they vary so much and certainly aren't comparable to a Martin. Yamaha have made some stunning acoustic guitars, I probably own about 7 ranging from L series to early 1990s. Get the right model and they can be superb. K.Yairi and S.Yairi is also worth some considering.....personally find the 1970s models to be pretty special. Quality is the key, alot of the more generic guitars can lack that special something.

Zoonyboy

A real good 70s cheapie is an E-Ros Dakota. I was told Jimmy Page used one. I had one new in 1971, and bought another recently for £65.00. Must be the same Italian factory as Eko, as the dims are the same. They are sturdy, play really well, and with a decent set of strings, are good sounding. Ideal for a couch player. Or, you may find a Guild D25 with a few scars under 500 if you look around, they are quite nice.

guitarjack66

Why would you want to buy a badly made,reasonably cheap,old guitar when you can buy a much better cheap modern one which would seem like a custom made in comparison? It just seems strange to me.

TheMadMick

Of course if you bin the 70's criterion, I have a Yamaha AC3R for sale at £385.00 collected Southport. It's all solid and well set up. If you're interested, shoot me a PM.

bertie

guitarjack66 said:

Why would you want to buy a badly made,reasonably cheap,old guitar when you can buy a much better cheap modern one which would seem like a custom made in comparison? It just seems strange to me.

because you can play cricket with most of them -  not even HB can make that claim

ICBM

guitarjack66 said:

Why would you want to buy a badly made,reasonably cheap,old guitar when you can buy a much better cheap modern one which would seem like a custom made in comparison? It just seems strange to me.

In a word, character.

Most modern cheaper guitars, while well-made, are also bland and generic to play and listen to.

I’d much rather have a nice Eko or a Japanese Gibson copy than most of them.

CavemanGrogg

Easily, but a decent 70's acoustic is not as good as a £400 modern acoustic.  Hell you can get 50's Hofner Senators easily for under £400, doesn't mean that they are any good though.  If you want good vintage, you really have to be prepared to either break open the wallet really wide, or get something that needs some work done to it.

Tannin

CavemanGrogg said:

Easily, but a decent 70's acoustic is not as good as a £400 modern acoustic.  Hell you can get 50's Hofner Senators easily for under £400, doesn't mean that they are any good though.  If you want good vintage, you really have to be prepared to either break open the wallet really wide, or get something that needs some work done to it.

I'm not sure I can agree with that. The modern guitar will very likely have a better setup and be more playable as-is, but the (typically excellent) tone of any half-decent solid made-in-Japan guitar has to be considered, and (depending on exactly what needs doing)  a better setup is not expensive. 

As for a 50s Hofner, no thanks!