Which HB...Decision Time!?!

MentalSharps

darthed1981 said:

MentalSharps said:

For the 335 you'd probably be better off to stretch to the Sire Larry Carlton.

Is that based on personally owning both, spec, reviews, price point?

Genuinely interested BTW.

 It's mostly based on the fact that Larry Carlton personally specced and approved the Sire 335, and also uses it live sometimes. I'd just expect that to be a fantastic playing 335, for him to have his name on it considering how associated he is with that guitar.

But also from what I understand - I would expect all of the Sire options to exceed the HB's in each category out of the box - reflected by their price differential (ie best to buy each based on what your budget is).

My understanding of both brands is that the HB's are contracted out to a whole range of different factories, who fit them in based on the gaps on whatever else is produced in those factories, using whichever tooling and whichever assemblers happen to be working in those factories with experience assembling whichever guitars happen to be made in those factories which is probably many types of constant variations.

The quality control isn't perfect from the sounds of it - basing this on times I've read about people receiving guitars where clearly someone hadn't even looked at it yet it had been shipped (as in not functional), leads me to assume that for cost saving Thomann probably don't open the boxes or at best do a quick glance, mostly relying on however they came from the various factories with the varying QC. 

Reflected in the incredible price which simply noone else can match with the same quality of guitar/features, except Cort who are the anti-matter version of Thomann.

From what I gather Sire's approach of attempting to cut out the middle men is that the guitars are made in their own factory which Sire own, using their own dedicated tooling and staff who only make Sire guitars, and nothing else is made in the factory. All the guitars were specced and designed with the active involvement of Marcus Miller and Larry Carlton, make the parts and hardware themselves too, and Sire have direct control of the QC standards.

On the retail end they keep the margin minimal by selling direct (in US and China) or through alledgedly special deals in EU. From what I can tell buying a Sire through Thomann means Thomann can't open the box or it becomes B Stock, because the QC is backed on Sire's end from the factory. Possibly that's how they negotiate low margin deals with retailers, but mostly I'd guess it's savings from the factory and low numbers of guitars returned to retailer for QC issues that allows margin for retailer that doesn't eat into Sire's costs as much.

I think it could be argued that Thomann's business model is set up to account for this, with the 30 day no quibble return policy. I'd probably view buying from Thomann a bit like buying from a clothes online retailer, best to buy 3-5 test them like you would in a shop and send the others back and probably overcome the QC issue and get a bargain in the process if you can do setup yourself.

Dave_Mc

I haven't tried any of them, but with the semi-hollow, if you don't like the pickups, it's going to be a real pain to change them...

bluecat

I would pick the TE 62 DB.

Cookiemonster

Number 3

skunkwerx

Dave_Mc said:

I haven't tried any of them, but with the semi-hollow, if you don't like the pickups, it's going to be a real pain to change them...

If the stock pickups are disposable you could remove them from the top, cutting their wires as close to the pickup as you want, and then solder the new pickup wires to the originals wires. 

Not a tidy way to do it but would get the job done especially if it was just to try them out. Could solder the originals back if not. 

Crazed_Fandango

The 1st one looks the best.  I like Teles, but that one just doesn't look right and the 335 in modern colours is even worse.

I have no experience with HB guitars though.  At that price I doubt they would be brilliant, but hardware upgrades make them good project guitars (which may be an issue as stated with the 335).

rossi

You can always cut and shut 335 type pick ups .Just cut the wires and solder up new ones and then heat shrink .No problems unless you pull the wires  leading to the switch and pots .I did this on a Dot and it was fine .I put in Tonerider Rocksongs .Took a few minutes .

bertie

is the 335 a-likey,  full 335 size or more 339 ?  it looks smaller than a 335................... 

Roundwound

I’d save up for longer and buy/play authentic.

Failing that number 2. 

darthed1981

Roundwound said:

I’d save up for longer and buy/play authentic

You are Mark Agnesi and ICM £5

Dave_Mc

skunkwerx said:

Dave_Mc said:

I haven't tried any of them, but with the semi-hollow, if you don't like the pickups, it's going to be a real pain to change them...

If the stock pickups are disposable you could remove them from the top, cutting their wires as close to the pickup as you want, and then solder the new pickup wires to the originals wires. 

Not a tidy way to do it but would get the job done especially if it was just to try them out. Could solder the originals back if not. 

Good idea (also @rossi ). You probably wouldn't do it with a custom shop 335, but I'm guessing it wouldn't be a problem with a Harley Benton!

darthed1981

Dave_Mc said:

skunkwerx said:

Dave_Mc said:

I haven't tried any of them, but with the semi-hollow, if you don't like the pickups, it's going to be a real pain to change them...

If the stock pickups are disposable you could remove them from the top, cutting their wires as close to the pickup as you want, and then solder the new pickup wires to the originals wires. 

Not a tidy way to do it but would get the job done especially if it was just to try them out. Could solder the originals back if not. 

Good idea (also @rossi ). You probably wouldn't do it with a custom shop 335, but I'm guessing it wouldn't be a problem with a Harley Benton!

Call me mad if you like, but the idea of spending £3k on a guitar where the main quality of sound comes from an expensive component of that guitar I don't like and would immediately swap, a little bit unbelievable, though I know people do it.

However, I agree if you don't like Roswell pickups an HB could be... well... with a pickup swap... BETTER than a custom shop, in that you don't hurt the value of your asset by tinkering with the damn thing to turn it into a musical instrument you want to play...

rossi

Dave_Mc said:

skunkwerx said:

Dave_Mc said:

I haven't tried any of them, but with the semi-hollow, if you don't like the pickups, it's going to be a real pain to change them...

If the stock pickups are disposable you could remove them from the top, cutting their wires as close to the pickup as you want, and then solder the new pickup wires to the originals wires. 

Not a tidy way to do it but would get the job done especially if it was just to try them out. Could solder the originals back if not. 

Good idea (also @rossi ). You probably wouldn't do it with a custom shop 335, but I'm guessing it wouldn't be a problem with a Harley Benton!

 I wouldnt change the pickups on a Gibson at all .

BigPaulie

Of the three you've listed, the double bound Tele all day long. I'm considering one myself.

However, if you're open to other suggestions, how about this?

https://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_aeolus_bengal_flame.htm

Dave_Mc

darthed1981 said:

Call me mad if you like, but the idea of spending £3k on a guitar where the main quality of sound comes from an expensive component of that guitar I don't like and would immediately swap, a little bit unbelievable, though I know people do it.

However, I agree if you don't like Roswell pickups an HB could be... well... with a pickup swap... BETTER than a custom shop, in that you don't hurt the value of your asset by tinkering with the damn thing to turn it into a musical instrument you want to play...

Yeah. I mean... I figure the pickups are pretty personal, and even if an expensive guitar has "good" pickups they might not have the specs you would want. (To be clear, I don't have a custom shop 335!)

I understand your point, but I guess I would make the opposite point that, considering how personal pickups are, you might be discounting guitars which are perfect apart from the pickups- your perfect guitar might not be available off the shelf (or if it is it might be more expensive than it needs to be). (Granted that's a very valid point about ruining something expensive if you don't know what you're doing!)

rossi said:

 I wouldnt change the pickups on a Gibson at all .

LOL I changed the pickups on my SG (not custom shop, from most accounts the custombuckers are pretty good).

I wouldn't be surprised I'd have preferred the Roswell or Tesla pickups in Harley Bentons!