Tiny Tube amps (on a budget!) ? What’s my options

rlw

Cornford Harlequin.  Despite all the negativity here, they’re great amps for playing at home.

JezWynd

I use a couple of small tube heads. A Palmer Eins, a one watt head that can also function as a drive pedal and also has a simulated output. The other is a Bugera T5 Infinium, a 5/1/0.1w head with reverb and a headphone out socket (unusual in a valve head) so can be used without needing a cabinet. You can purchase either of these new for under 200ukp and both sound very good. The Palmer can use a variety of valves and depending upon the combination you select can give more or less grit. I have it set up for maximum clean and I love the sound it gives. I may be selling the Bugera head, if you are interested PM me.

Squareheadedfreak

blackheart killer ant! I have oranges, modded marshalls, morgans & still enjoy my 1w killer ant from time to time! Will power a 4x12 but sounds best with a 1x10!

andy_k

It is often frustrating when trying to find a good amp solution, for any particular purpose, as generally we expect it to be able to suit quite drastically different scenarios.
We watch YT vids that appear to show good sounds coming from valve equipment at low volume, and we can watch those vids at low volume, even headphones.
Then we get that amp, and it is impossible to recreate the experience, we wonder why?
We think we want the purity and simplicity of a valve amp, but expect to get the sound that is created by having pre and power stages pushed hard through good speakers, with a nice room sound, which is all very doable in the digital domain, and probably has to be if we want to then listen on headphones.
Something like a Katana, or a POD is perfect for this application, but it's not valve, right.
Something like an Epi valve special, or a Class 5 IS valve, and sounds great on paper, but will not get near the sound we have in our head, we had a long conversation on the Class 5 in another thread, a very marmite amp, but great for what it is and what it does.
I have had some realisations, over time, and now think that a good compromise  is to use analogue pedals to get any level of gain we want, and then to use something like a Mooer Radar for the final emulation of power stage, speaker and room, in my case I would be doing it through a PA, because I don't like using headphones, but the same gear can be put through any size speaker as the emulation is taking care of the speaker tone anyway.
It is the analogue nature of the pedals that is doing the tone shaping, which is the same principle as using the brute force approach of level in valves to get saturation, and the final stage of amplification just has to be neutral and have either a speaker output, or a headphone out ( headphones are speakers strapped to your ears )
The 'room' sound has to also be emulated, if there is no room present.
I built a Fuzzdog Noisy Cricket ( tiny amp based on a chip ) that sounds pretty amazing at volume through a 4 x 12, but any speaker will do, and it sounds remarkably similar to a clean valve amp, at low volume, and I get good results by using a selection of gain pedals plus a reverb pedal into it.
Boss do a set of headphones based on the Katana, which sound like they would be perfect for your needs, except there are no valves, and they look a little complicated.
Just a couple of ideas there for you to think about.

ICBM

rlw said:

Cornford Harlequin.  Despite all the negativity here, they’re great amps for playing at home.

I honestly struggle to think of a worse amp for playing at home. If that’s negative it’s only because I could not get a sound I liked out of it at all. It’s pretty much everything I dislike about guitar amps in one package. Although to be fair, it probably sounded better quiet than it did louder .

Part of the problem is the ludicrous choice of the V30 speaker for a low-powered, very midrangy amp - and when I tried to swap it for something less stiff and middy, I found it seemed to be glued to the baffle, which did not exactly endear it to me...

RickLucas

Anyone remember the Hughes & Kettner Cream Machine?

ICBM

RickLucas said:

Anyone remember the Hughes & Kettner Cream Machine?

Yes - although I'd forgotten the details. No headphone out though. (As well as no EQ.)

In the same direction, here's a radically left-field idea...

Mesa V-Twin pedal. Really - you can actually drive a cabinet from the headphone output, although counterintuitively you need the output switch set to 'mixer' not 'headphones' (because it's a TRS jack and otherwise shorts the ring to ground). It's also best with a hi-fi speaker, since the output is emulated. It's not at all loud, well under 1W (probably well under 100mW, although I haven't measured it), but it does work!

bertie

MentalSharps said:

Or you could get a fender style combo for £200-300 like some on the classifieds recently, and add a loadbox when budget allows.

which also (to my thinking) allows for "best of both" worlds.................................. 

Flanging_Fred

RickLucas said:

Anyone remember the Hughes & Kettner Cream Machine?

I had one of these. It basically had one sound, an absolutely raging Marshall being driven really hard. It was pretty harsh to be honest and the only way to tame it was a preamp valve swap (I think I chucked an old Mullard ecc81 in there) which made it slightly more controllable. I remember getting one half decent recording out of it.

I certainly wouldn’t recommend the Cream Machine for blues. Maybe the el84 based Crunch Master(or Blues Master as it was called in the US) would be better suited, but they are hard to find on s/h market now.

For my 2p, I’d just stick with the Spark modeller really.

Danny1969

For headphone practice any valve amp is going to sound a bit shit and one dimensional ... as the headphone output will be dual mono, exactly the same signal both sides even with the reverb on. Our ears aren't used to hearing a source equally in both ears, that doesn't happen without headphones so what ever you use it needs some kind of stereo reverb processing to stand a chance of sounding real and engaging. 

Modelllers tend to get the processing right but the base sounds are generally OK for real clean and very dirty but no so good for a bluesy break up. 

What you can do however is plug the Nux Mighty plug into the headphone output of a valve amp and then plug your phones into the NUX. Then set up a patch with a neutral amp and a touch of stereo reverb and tiny amount of delay.  This will vastly improve the sound of the headphone out as it will add speaker / IR emulation and a sense of stereo field. You can also use a valve amps send socket for this if it has an effects loop but no headphone output. 

Dave_Mc

Dodge said:

For your application, I'd stick with the modeller.

'Proper' valve amps tend not to have headphone out, and if they did they'd likely sound worst than a modeller through headphones anyway.

I've been chasing a low wattage amp that actually sounds half decent and even with really good low wattage amps like Cornell etc., I've always got better results with higher wattage amps turned down.

My solution is a decent sounding higher wattage amp through a loadbox and into a DAW hosting impulse responses.  Authentic valve tone at any volume you like.

Yeah. I think it depends on the sounds you're after. If you want the sound of a big amp, then a small amp will likely disappoint. That's not to say small amps are bad- some people actively want the sound of a small amp- but they work best when that's the tone you want.

hollywoodrox

Ahh if it’s for blues ,the blues cube  hot then , sturdy , small good name ,reliable ,

thecolourbox

Dave_Mc said:

Dodge said:

For your application, I'd stick with the modeller.

'Proper' valve amps tend not to have headphone out, and if they did they'd likely sound worst than a modeller through headphones anyway.

I've been chasing a low wattage amp that actually sounds half decent and even with really good low wattage amps like Cornell etc., I've always got better results with higher wattage amps turned down.

My solution is a decent sounding higher wattage amp through a loadbox and into a DAW hosting impulse responses.  Authentic valve tone at any volume you like.

Yeah. I think it depends on the sounds you're after. If you want the sound of a big amp, then a small amp will likely disappoint. That's not to say small amps are bad- some people actively want the sound of a small amp- but they work best when that's the tone you want.

I think that's the case with small modelling amps as well as small valve amps though, through the little hi-fi speaker amps it still won't sound like a big amp. 

Dave_Mc

thecolourbox said:

I think that's the case with small modelling amps as well as small valve amps though, through the little hi-fi speaker amps it still won't sound like a big amp. 

That's a good point. I've got a little Vox Mini3 modelling amp (the older version) and while it's pretty good and hard to complain for what I paid for it (£65 new IIRC!), it definitely sounds and feels like a smaller amp, and I suspect a fair bit of that is the speaker, and maybe just the smaller power rating as well.

bertie

thecolourbox said:

Dave_Mc said:

Dodge said:

For your application, I'd stick with the modeller.

'Proper' valve amps tend not to have headphone out, and if they did they'd likely sound worst than a modeller through headphones anyway.

I've been chasing a low wattage amp that actually sounds half decent and even with really good low wattage amps like Cornell etc., I've always got better results with higher wattage amps turned down.

My solution is a decent sounding higher wattage amp through a loadbox and into a DAW hosting impulse responses.  Authentic valve tone at any volume you like.

Yeah. I think it depends on the sounds you're after. If you want the sound of a big amp, then a small amp will likely disappoint. That's not to say small amps are bad- some people actively want the sound of a small amp- but they work best when that's the tone you want.

I think that's the case with small modelling amps as well as small valve amps though, through the little hi-fi speaker amps it still won't sound like a big amp. 

BUT the OP says "90% of time through headphones"  so arguments about "small speakers" are kind of null.

Through headphones,  I'll still maintain that a modeller is probably going to sound as good if not better.

So -   stick with what you've got  and/or get a "proper" sized amp/combo and attenuator with speaker emulation/line/phones,    so the "90%" is satisfied then you also have a "proper" amp to get "proper" valvey goodness"

just me 3 groats worth

Dave_Mc

bertie said:

thecolourbox said:

Dave_Mc said:

Dodge said:

For your application, I'd stick with the modeller.

'Proper' valve amps tend not to have headphone out, and if they did they'd likely sound worst than a modeller through headphones anyway.

I've been chasing a low wattage amp that actually sounds half decent and even with really good low wattage amps like Cornell etc., I've always got better results with higher wattage amps turned down.

My solution is a decent sounding higher wattage amp through a loadbox and into a DAW hosting impulse responses.  Authentic valve tone at any volume you like.

Yeah. I think it depends on the sounds you're after. If you want the sound of a big amp, then a small amp will likely disappoint. That's not to say small amps are bad- some people actively want the sound of a small amp- but they work best when that's the tone you want.

I think that's the case with small modelling amps as well as small valve amps though, through the little hi-fi speaker amps it still won't sound like a big amp. 

BUT the OP says "90% of time through headphones"  so arguments about "small speakers" are kind of null.

Through headphones,  I'll still maintain that a modeller is probably going to sound as good if not better.

So -   stick with what you've got  and/or get a "proper" sized amp/combo and attenuator with speaker emulation/line/phones,    so the "90%" is satisfied then you also have a "proper" amp to get "proper" valvey goodness"

just me 3 groats worth

Touché. I was just responding to the point @thecolourbox made (read: I'd forgotten all about the original question, as you correctly deduced!  )

Crazyblue1779

Well folks, I appreciate all the input. It seems that I’m probably best just sticking with the Spark  for the moment.

I hadn’t anticipated how complex this would turn out to be, especially when factoring headphones into the mix which, considering most of my playing is done late at night, are an essential component!

ICBM

I would say don’t give up on the idea. The HT-1R - preferably the head and a 10” cabinet - still fits the bill, and if you buy used and it doesn’t work out you won’t lose much reselling it. The headphone output still might not sound as good as the Spark, but it does have proper speaker emulation, and the reverb will stop it sounding as claustrophobic as a totally dry sound does through cans.

Toe_Knee

I would think for what you are wanting maybe a valve preamp would be a better idea.

No need for a cab especially with you mostly using headphones. 

That way you could get something really compact. 

Danny1969

I quite like the BS HT5 and you can get these very cheap. As I mentioned earlier plugging a £50 Nux headphone amp into the emulated output will allow you to add IR's and some nice reverb and effects. Although BS are probably best known as hard rock and metal amps they clean up surprising well  ..... this is an HT5 with the Nux mighty plug in the emulated output. Using the send socket of a valve amps effects loop will also work very well but don't use any head without a speaker attached or some kind of load.