Stratocaster vibrato systems - use all 5 springs please. Leo did that for a reason...

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  • grappagreengrappagreen Frets: 1340
    edited June 2022


    Sassafras said:
    The extra springs add weight to the guitar, consequently, sustain is vastly improved.
    I've been adding springs to all my guitars, even the non-trem ones and they all sustain for days.


    Extra springs for weight... but hold on aren't super lightweight guitars most important for resonance and tone? No wonder I'm so confused by all this super insightful information from the experts..

    Sassafras said:
    The extra springs add weight to the guitar, consequently, sustain is vastly improved.
    I've been adding springs to all my guitars, even the non-trem ones and they all sustain for days.
    I've tried from 2 - 5 springs and I still sounded exactly the same... must be because I just don't have the ears or skillzzz

    It's a good job I realised that all of this is utter horseshit some time ago.. honestly, you guys kill me..
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71957
    Lewy said:

    So...what's the point? Fewer stronger springs, more weaker springs...doesn't it all just add up to tension which is either the amount you want or isn't, and is adjustable via the claw anyway?

    Or are we saying that once the tension is set so that the balance is where you want it, the number or type of springs affects the feel of moving the bridge from that point?
    Yes. More springs mean that the spring force increases or decreases more rapidly as you move away from the rest point, giving a stiffer feel, but also (at least theoretically) a more positive and accurate return to pitch - although in practice that’s more dependent on the nut and string trees.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • richardhomerrichardhomer Frets: 24793
    edited June 2022
    The only benefit of five springs (assuming the trem is set to float) is that the bridge is not pulled up as far when bending, which means the string doesn’t need to be bent as far to reach the desired pitch. In other word, it will behave more like a fixed bridge.

    Clearly the trade off is it makes the trem much harder to use.
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  • PALPAL Frets: 515
    I seem to remember Fender Strats shipped with 12 gauge strings and five springs but player didn't go mad with the trem.
      My own experience with trems is they are more stable with heavier strings ( nothing below 10s ) and the five springs do make
      a difference to the sound and by that I mean the sound is fuller . So if you like lighter strings try five springs because as 
     someone has mentioned adjust the claw for balance. If this is too tight then you can buy some lower tension springs !
      
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  • Philly_QPhilly_Q Frets: 22516
    PAL said:
    I seem to remember Fender Strats shipped with 12 gauge strings and five springs but player didn't go mad with the trem.
        
    Blimey, how long ago was that?
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  • robertyroberty Frets: 10893
    Philly_Q said:
    PAL said:
    I seem to remember Fender Strats shipped with 12 gauge strings and five springs but player didn't go mad with the trem.
        
    Blimey, how long ago was that?
    70 years give or take?
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  • DefaultMDefaultM Frets: 7271
    Correct. 5 springs and take the bar out. Perfect.
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  • TheBigDipperTheBigDipper Frets: 4722
    I must get a guitar with a whammy arm one day. You all seem to be having so much fun!  :)
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  • Mike58Mike58 Frets: 157
    Spring tension has to roughly match string tension.
    too much and the trem won’t budge, too little and the rear end of bridge is way up in the air. Claw gives you room to fine tune.
    Simple.
    I use 5 low tension springs on my Strats.. with either 10-46 or 9.5-42s why? cos they sound springy and that’s a lovely thing.
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  • BidleyBidley Frets: 2912
    Something something "fight" something somthing "taste" something "musical".
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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 26751
    Mike58 said:
    Spring tension has to roughly match string tension.
    too much and the trem won’t budge, too little and the rear end of bridge is way up in the air. Claw gives you room to fine tune.
    Simple.
    I use 5 low tension springs on my Strats.. with either 10-46 or 9.5-42s why? cos they sound springy and that’s a lovely thing.
    String tension and spring tension are equal whenever your trem is floating and you aren't using the arm - that's physics

    What different numbers of springs does is change how the system responds to upward and downward force on the arm. More springs makes down-bends feel heavier and upwards feel lighter, and vice versa
    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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  • JMS96JMS96 Frets: 135
    Do you find this different on a modern 2 post bridge than with the 6 screw one? I find the 2post bridge more wobbly so I use 5 springs to tighten it up. 
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  • NeckwringerNeckwringer Frets: 357
    Fitting 5 Raw springs is quite an eye opener imo...............
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  • StevepageStevepage Frets: 3037
    Leo wasn’t a guitar player so I’m sure the 5 springs was purely to keep the trem from being pulled up with typical string gauges at the time. I don’t think there was any musical intention
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  • I can't see it being more of a feel thing; more springs would result in quicker increase in resistance, fewer springs would feel more uniform.

    You would notice a difference with dive bombs, but not when using for slight vibrato.
    Don't let your mind post toastee - like a lot of my friends did!
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  • merlin said:

    Believe in a God who sits on a cloud, has a massive beard and hates homosexuality. Makes as much sense. 
    !!!!!
    Don't let your mind post toastee - like a lot of my friends did!
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  • ColsCols Frets: 6953
    Out of interest, is there anyone out there who uses only one spring?
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  • impmannimpmann Frets: 12645
    I use six springs - and only those made before 1962 to ensure the toanz are correct. I also only use strings made before 1962 as any fool knows they changed the iron content after that date so there isn't full magnetic transfer on these thin modern things. Yes its very expensive, and hard on the fingers but its night and day better for the toanz through my Helix/Katana set up.

    Never Ever Bloody Anything Ever.

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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27580
    It's important to remember that Leo also ate dry Grape Nuts out of a hat for breakfast, and thought that pigeons were baby giraffes. 

    Not all of his ideas were great. 
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
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  • richardhomerrichardhomer Frets: 24793
    Love the use of ‘Leo’ in threads like this - like we all knew him - and what his intentions were…
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