Guitar (strat type) Tremolo bridge fitting help/advice.

GrahamG

Hi, i'm trying to fit a new "Wilkinson" bridge to my old "Gordy" strat type body, in my wisdom & complete lack of experience i decided to try the later 2 blade/post fitting Type bridge, but it has no fitting instructions whatsoever  .
From my rough(ruler) measuring it looks like the mounting post holes will be in the correct position if i drill them in the same location as the the 2 outer holes of the old 6 screw bridge position(hope this is clear enough), can anyone help me with this ? please  .
Thanks, Graham.

Funkfingers

Relax. DON'T DO IT.

The pivots need to be EXACTLY perpendicular to the top the guitar body.

It is critically important that the holes for the threaded inserts are made using a bench press drill. 

Anything less precise will ruin the guitar.

ICBM

If it's one of the Wilkinson bridges with either one round screw hole and one oval, or one semi-circular recess and one straight edge, then the post spacing is not absolutely critical, although it still must be within a small range or the Wilkinson bridge will bind and/or there may be string alignment issues with the fingerboard. Check this first - 'looks like' isn't close enough, you need to measure the spacing accurately. Many older far-east-made Strat copies have quite a narrow spacing and the Wilkinson probably won't fit. In addition, what Funkfingers said - the post holes must be perpendicular to the body.

If you have wisdom as well as complete lack of experience , the best solution is to take it to a professional who has fitted this sort of thing before - and has the right type of drill press to do the job if it is practical. It shouldn't be an expensive job, and certainly cheaper to do it right the first time than to have to patch wrong holes in the body and do it again.

In fact, since I see you're in Warrington, drop @SteveRobinson a message.

GrahamG

Funkfingers said:

Relax. DON'T DO IT.

The pivots need to be EXACTLY perpendicular to the top the guitar body.

It is critically important that the holes for the threaded inserts are made using a bench press drill. 

Anything less precise will ruin the guitar.

Thanks Funkfingers, I'll be ok with the drilling or at least i hope i will  ,i do have a bench drill & in a former life i was a "fitter/turner" & have drilled thousands of holes, but on the other hand i've not done that work for 40yrs, so fingers crossed, but i think i'll be ok  .
My main concern is the precise  location of the holes, i'd be ok with a template but i'm going just from just nut to12th fret measurements etc.
If this was my gigging Guitar i wouldn't even consider it, but this is an old Gordy Redshift body that is just the wood & i'm building it from scratch with cheapish bits,i'm fitting an old Squire neck & i'm even going to have a go at re-finishing it,just to see if i can , i'll be ok with rest of the build, if i can get the bridge located correctly. 

SteveRobinson

The two outer holes will be fine. IIRC Trevor Wilkinson designed them that way

GrahamG

ICBM said:

If it's one of the Wilkinson bridges with either one round screw hole and one oval, or one semi-circular recess and one straight edge, then the post spacing is not absolutely critical, although it still must be within a small range or the Wilkinson bridge will bind and/or there may be string alignment issues with the fingerboard. Check this first - 'looks like' isn't close enough, you need to measure the spacing accurately. Many older far-east-made Strat copies have quite a narrow spacing and the Wilkinson probably won't fit. In addition, what Funkfingers said - the post holes must be perpendicular to the body.

If you have wisdom as well as complete lack of experience , the best solution is to take it to a professional who has fitted this sort of thing before - and has the right type of drill press to do the job if it is practical. It shouldn't be an expensive job, and certainly cheaper to do it right the first time than to have to patch wrong holes in the body and do it again.

In fact, since I see you're in Warrington, drop @SteveRobinson a message.

Sorry ICBM, you posted as i was replying to Funkfingers(need to be careful when you type that ), just to add to my reply the Gordy body is/was made in the UK(Hale Manchester), just in case you're not familiar with the name Gordy guitars where made by Gordon Whitham of Gordon Smith guitars(hence Gordy) when they GS where built in Partington Manchester prior to the split up, apologies if you knew all this.
Cheers, Graham.

SteveRobinson

Gordon's stuff was always so much higher quality than Gordon Smith guitars (well all bar the very early ones). You can see why they parted ways, I suspect that Gordon and John had very different ideas about making guitars. 

GrahamG

SteveRobinson said:

Gordon's stuff was always so much higher quality than Gordon Smith guitars (well all bar the very early ones). You can see why they parted ways, I suspect that Gordon and John had very different ideas about making guitars. 

Hi, Steve. in reply to your post i'll just say this, Gordon is one of the nicest & most genuine guys i have ever met & yes Gordy Guitars where really 1st class & possibly even better than the early GS guitars before the split.
Since i bought my 1st GS in about(1977/78) i've only owned either GS or later Gordy Guitars & i still have 3 including the Redshift body, i'm thinking about trying to rebuild.
Do you mind if i PM you about this ?, or do you prefer if go via your Website ?
Cheers, Graham.

GrahamG

SteveRobinson said:

The two outer holes will be fine. IIRC Trevor Wilkinson designed them that way

Just read this, thanks 

ICBM

GrahamG said:

Sorry ICBM, you posted as i was replying to Funkfingers(need to be careful when you type that ), just to add to my reply the Gordy body is/was made in the UK(Hale Manchester), just in case you're not familiar with the name Gordy guitars where made by Gordon Whitham of Gordon Smith guitars(hence Gordy) when they GS where built in Partington Manchester prior to the split up, apologies if you knew all this.

My mistake . In that case you just need to make sure the post holes are vertical. I would definitely not try it without a drill press, even if it's a freestanding one rather than a full bench/pillar drill.

GrahamG

ICBM said:

GrahamG said:

Sorry ICBM, you posted as i was replying to Funkfingers(need to be careful when you type that ), just to add to my reply the Gordy body is/was made in the UK(Hale Manchester), just in case you're not familiar with the name Gordy guitars where made by Gordon Whitham of Gordon Smith guitars(hence Gordy) when they GS where built in Partington Manchester prior to the split up, apologies if you knew all this.

My mistake . In that case you just need to make sure the post holes are vertical. I would definitely not try it without a drill press, even if it's a freestanding one rather than a full bench/pillar drill.

I have access to a nice bench drill & i can clamp the body to the vice plate, i think i'll be ok with it, but if i'm in any doubt i won't drill it, thanks for the advice & help.
I want to build up the complete Guitar with "budget" parts & if i think i've made a decent job of it, strip it down & "paint" it, then reassemble it with a really good quality neck & upgraded bits where required, at least that's the plan  .

Funkfingers

GrahamG said:

replying to Funkfingers (need to be careful when you type that).

I also answer to variant spellings such as Finkfungus and the perennial Goon Show favourite, "stop, thief!" 

BillDL

I think your best bet would be to do a practice run on a bit of old wood first so you can check how precisely the pivot points line up using the spacings of the existing outside two screw holes. If only I had used my own advice the first time I tried to do what you are doing, because it would have saved me from having to buy a plug cutting bit to make custom hardwood dowels to fill the misplaced holes.

GrahamG

BillDL said:

I think your best bet would be to do a practice run on a bit of old wood first so you can check how precisely the pivot points line up using the spacings of the existing outside two screw holes. If only I had used my own advice the first time I tried to do what you are doing, because it would have saved me from having to buy a plug cutting bit to make custom hardwood dowels to fill the misplaced holes.

Thanks, i've already started doing test drills as you advised, good advice, it doesn't help that there are no correct dimensions for the inserts & no recommended drill size, so i've bought 8.0/9.0 mm drills & ordered an 8.5, which may be here Tomorrow , i think the 8.5 will be the correct size.
I'll report back how i get on with the testing, oh & i'm toying with the idea of doing a test hole in the actual body in one of the cavities, but i'm only thinking about it  .

Flip

A kit I bought early in my 'career' had a Wilkinson-type bridge which was impossible to fit - mainly because the body aperture had been wrongly cut. I had a Manchester luthier look at it and he confirmed my view. In the end, the supplier sent me two 6-hole bridges, one of which was perfect.

Apart from the number of holes I don't see the Wilkinson design as a benefit - the bridge pivots on the two pins rather than the shaped lip of the Fender style but I'm not aware from playing both that there's an advantage in either.

GrahamG

Flip said:

A kit I bought early in my 'career' had a Wilkinson-type bridge which was impossible to fit - mainly because the body aperture had been wrongly cut. I had a Manchester luthier look at it and he confirmed my view. In the end, the supplier sent me two 6-hole bridges, one of which was perfect.

Apart from the number of holes I don't see the Wilkinson design as a benefit - the bridge pivots on the two pins rather than the shaped lip of the Fender style but I'm not aware from playing both that there's an advantage in either.

You may well be correct about the Wikinson, i just thought i'd try a more "modern" bridge design.
Am i right in thinking that Fender & others also do 2 pin bridges ?, there are also a few different Wilkinson 2 pole designs, i am doing this rebuild on a budget as an experiment to do it myself, plus one of my Gordy guitars has a 2 pin type(don't know the make) which has always worked well.

BillDL

There are plenty guitars using Strat type tremolo units but with the dual-fulcrum studs (G&L, Fender, and loads of other fender-styled models).  The advantage is that the fewer fulcrum points and the sharper points of contact minimise potential friction.  On a "vintage" 6-screw trem bridge the screws into the body have bare shanks at the top.  If they are all absolutely in line with each other and all the countersunk holes (i.e. chamfered edges) are drilled absolutely in line, technically they are all touching the screws and sharing the load bearing.  That isn't always the case though, because screws can go in slightly off-vertical, slightly staggered from the imaginary straight line, and the holes in the leading edge of the bridge plate can be slightly out of line with each other.  There was an old trick with vintage trem bridges to lower all the screws to the optimum height to allow the best movement, and then back out all but the outside screws a bit.  Because the bare shank up near each screwhead tapers, by backing the middle screws out, only the outside two screws make contact with the chamfered holes and bear all of the load.  Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.  I notice a distinct difference in accuracy and fluidity on a dual-fulcrum bridge, but the studs need to be at just the right height.