Tele 5-way switch mod question

eru

I recently added a 5-way switch mod to my Telecaster copy, using the exact wiring shown in the below pic:





I thought it had worked out fine, but something I've just noticed is that touching the cover of the neck pickup when the switch is in positions 1 or 2 (i.e. the two new positions) causes a buzz.

Touching the neck pickup cover in positions 4 and 5 (standard Tele middle and neck positions) has the same effect as touching the strings or bridge. Touching the cover in position 3 (standard Tele bridge position) makes a very light hum, unless I'm already touching the strings or bridge.

None of this happens with the bridge pickup.

As I've never used any kind of out-of-phase mod before, I was wondering if this is normal for this kind of wiring or maybe a grounding issue.

Thanks for any help.

sixstringsupplies

Apologies this is one of our diagrams - it fails to include the neck cover being separately grounded.

Disconnect the cover ground from the coil, add a new selerate ground wire, then solder this wire to the top of the volume pot.

this photo guide shows you how (scroll towards the end) https://sixstringsupplies.co.uk/pages/4-way-telecaster-wiring-mod

and apologies again - get in touch and we’ll send some freebies out to you!

Neilybob

I recently installed a 5 way tele wiring harness from Bloodstone and it advise that I had to cut or remove the ground wire from the standard tele bridge pickup for all positions to work properly. 

Funkfingers

Neilybob said:

I recently installed a 5 way tele wiring harness from Bloodstone and it advise that I had to cut or remove the ground wire from the standard tele bridge pickup for all positions to work properly. 

Might be a different circuit, using a different format switch. e.g. Schaller Megaswitch M, circuit SS3.

For this circuit, the necessary mod is to separate the bridge pickup baseplate ground from the coil start (ground). Do this at the baseplate end. It is often quicker and tidier to simply snip the short jumper wire and bend it out of the way.

ICBM

sixstringsupplies said:

Disconnect the cover ground from the coil, add a new selerate ground wire, then solder this wire to the top of the volume pot.

Before adding the new wire, I would check that it actually needs it. Simply cut the link between the cover and the eyelet - at the eyelet end, as it's easier to resolder it if you change your mind, or splice on a new ground cable there rather than actually onto the cover.

The cover is a shield to prevent noise, but as Strat pickups don't have any shielding at all and don't generally pick up too much, the Tele pickup probably doesn't really need it. Disconnecting the cover also slightly brightens the tone.

Zoolooter

This might help
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=joM4Q7ji5dE

eru

Thanks everyone for the replies.

After reading @sixstringsupplies' post earlier, I followed his instructions of disconnecting the cover ground from the coil and connecting a new wire to the back of the volume pot. This has worked perfectly, all the buzzing is now gone. Having since read @ICBM's post, maybe the wire wasn't necessary but I'll just leave it because I've had enough of fiddling about inside this guitar for the time being!  

sixstringsupplies said:

...

and apologies again - get in touch and we’ll send some freebies out to you!

No worries, my own fault for not reading up fully on the mod before starting it. Thanks for your kind offer but your wiring diagrams have already been a freebie for me (clearest ones I've found on the interweb). Cheers.

eru

Update: I hadn't played this guitar for a week or so, but testing it today it seems something is definitely not right... For the pickup resistances I get:

P5 (neck) = 5.6k
P4 (neck & bridge) = 3.1k
P3 (bridge) = 6.3k

Normal so far, but then:

P2 (neck & bridge half out-of-phase) = exactly the same as position p3 (not sure if this is how it should be).

and...

P1 (neck with less low end) = 119k!

Anyone know what might have happened here?

ICBM

eru said:

Anyone know what might have happened here?

The cap in series prevents you getting a DC resistance reading from the neck pickup.

eru

ICBM said:

eru said:

Anyone know what might have happened here?

The cap in series prevents you getting a DC resistance reading from the neck pickup.

Ahh right. I was hoping it had something to do with that cap on the switch rather than the pickup. Thought I might have done something wrong when disconnecting the cover ground from the coil.

eru

I'm back with another question about this mod!

I was wondering if it's possible to change the order of the switch positions so that what is currently position 2 (neck + bridge half out-of-phase) is moved to position 3 (currently bridge) and vice versa.

If so, how would I do that?

Funkfingers

You will need a different switch.

IIRC, the circuit that you are currently using was devised by Bill Lawrence. The pickup permutations are a product of the physical layout of the CRL five-way lever switch.

You might have thought that an Oak Grigsby 12-contact switch would do the job but it cannot.

A 24-contact Superswitch might do what you desire BUT may not drop into the control cavity. The Schaller PCB one will, provided that your control cavity is all the same depth. Some modern Fenders have a bump in the rout between the volume pot and the switch. This may foul on a switch with a long or deep PCB.

I use the Schaller Megaswitch M, circuit SS3 - partly because it fits but mainly because it puts the traditional three Telecaster sounds in the lever positions where you expect them to be.

ICBM

Personally, I think it's easier, more logical to use and better to use a standard 3-way switch and put the half-out-of-phase sound on a push-pull pot.

eru

Thanks, Funkfingers and ICBM.

I had a feeling I'd need a different type of switch to do it. I think I'll just leave it as it is for the moment. I did the mod mainly because I found the original 3-way switch to be quite clunky and had a better quality 5-way switch spare. I've found the "neck with series cap" position to be not very useful, although I do like the half out-of-phase one. I'll bear in mind the superswitch and push-pull pot options when I inevitably end up fiddling about with it again.

normula1

The only problem with the half out of phase on a push pull is when you solo the pickup that is "phase adjusted" it can be compromised. I say "can be" because I have a Les Paul wired like this on a Duncan JB on the bridge and it cleans it up nicely.
Having the half out of phase on a blade switch has its own challenge in that flicking through the selections can be a little noisy as you go past the HOOP selection. I don't find it too big an issue, bit it is there.

Funkfingers

There ought to be way to configure the three-way switch connections such that the HOOP switching only affects the middle position.

Pole A 
Common = output
Bridge, bridge, neck white

Pole B
Common = output
None, return from HOOP switch, none.

I need to get scribbling on the back of an old envelope to deduce how to make this work. I predict that ICBM will beat me to it. 

ICBM

Very easy, just connect the cap instead of the link wire between full neck pickup and middle position.

Pole A - common to bridge pickup, bridge and middle position to volume.

Pole B - common to neck pickup, neck position to volume, middle position via cap to neck position.

Switch bypasses cap in ‘normal’ position.

Funkfingers

Et voilà. 

Truth be told, my central heating went off at 2230. No way was I going looking for pen and paper when it's Vladivostok in my vlat. 

EDIT

ICBM said:

Very easy, just connect the cap instead of the link wire between full neck pickup and middle position.

Pole A - common to bridge pickup, bridge and middle position to volume.

Pole B - common to neck pickup, neck position to volume, middle position via cap to neck position.

Switch bypasses cap in ‘normal’ position.

Yeah but no but …

Surely, adding the filter cap on the selector switch engages it whenever both pickups are selected, regardless of the status of the DPDT phase reversal switch.

My understanding of the Lawrence circuit is that phase reversal and filter have to be engaged simultaneously for the HOOP sound but at no other time. 

The Position 1 neck pickup + filter selection is an accidental by-product of using a five-way lever switch. It sounds is a bit "meh".

Maybe my brain still hadn't thawed out? 

ICBM

Funkfingers said:

Yeah but no but …

Surely, adding the filter cap on the selector switch engages it whenever both pickups are selected, regardless of the status of the DPDT phase reversal switch.

Yes, adding the cap on the switch cuts the bass frequencies from the neck pickup in the middle position, if the neck position terminal goes directly to the volume control as normal. The neck position is normal though, regardless of the DPDT (since reversing the phase doesn't affect the sound of that by itself).

I had the DPDT wiring described incorrectly though, that still has to be the phase switch.

Funkfingers

My point was that the filter cap should only be in circuit when the phase of the neck pickup is reversed by the DPDT.

When the neck pickup in its normal phase and both pickups are selected, having the filter cap in series would create a Bass Cut "Strangle" effect à la Fender Jaguar.

ICBM

Funkfingers said:

My point was that the filter cap should only be in circuit when the phase of the neck pickup is reversed by the DPDT.

When the neck pickup in its normal phase and both pickups are selected, having the filter cap in series would create a Bass Cut "Strangle" effect à la Fender Jaguar.

Only on the neck pickup though, the bridge will be normal, so it won't lack as much bottom end as you would expect.

Ideally the HOOP cap needs to be on the phase switch so it's only in series when the pickup is out of phase, but I'm having trouble combining that with only being active in the middle selector switch position . I think it should be possible with 'reversed' Tele switch wiring - rotors to volume and selected terminals to pickups - using the other neck end terminal to bypass the cap... but I'll need to draw it out, it's possible there's a catch!