Speaker advice - Tone Tubby Alnico Red

Reflex

Hi All

I bought a 12” Tone Tubby Alnico Red (hemp cone) a while back and it seems to make any amp I put it in sound “better” - barring the odd very trebly amp.

Having been through multiple amps and several speaker changes, I’m thinking I’ve possibly found the speaker that suits my ear best.  I have a preference for a darker tone and a woody articulate sound.  There also seems to be a warmth in there I like.  I’m not knowledgeable enough to know what the Alnico provides, but seem to like what I hear from them also.

Having found this gem, I’d like to know what other peoples thoughts are and whether there are other speakers that tick the warm, articulate sound I prefer, and then possibly add some.  The Celestion Cream Alnico, Taydens, Jensen Blackbird, WGS Blackhawk, all spring to mind.’  Although the aforementioned aren’t hempcone, I’m still interested to hear people thoughts…

Cheers!

Cirrus

From my own experience;

In the ceramic world, the G12-65 is woody and darker sounding. 

Alnicos - Weber alnicos (blue dog and silver bell) are smoother, thicker and quieter sounding than the equivalent speakers they're based on. I had two Tayden Ace 25s, and they were a little smoother than the modern celestions, but both developed coil rub within a year.

The Celestion Alnico Cream is smoother and thicker overall, but it has some harsh high end resonances that a lot of the higher wattage celestions do, so depending on the amp's voicing it's either thick or spikey sounding. Not as chronically so as the Gold, which I've found to be either sublime or utterly horrible depending on the amp.

I've never tried the Ruby, but it sounds very smooth in comparison demos. Might be worth looking at if the wattage rating would suffice.

Beyond that... Old speakers. They sound smoother. Both through years of use, the accumulation of dust and grime, and if you go back far enough to Pulsonic era Celestions, the cones were just plain smoother sounding.

smigeon

A while back I bought a Milkman “The Amp” from someone on here. From the start I loved it straight into my interface for recording, and through headphones. But it always sounded a bit “hard” and unappealing when I used its built-in class D 50w power amp straight into a 1x12 cab. My 1x12 cab is a BluGuitar Nano, so I (obviously) first tried the speaker that came with that. Didn’t like it at all. Then I tried an Eminence Wizard: better, but still disappointing. Then a Celestion Alnico Blue: same.

The above were speakers I already had at home. But finally I decided to try one more speaker before giving up on the Milkman as a gigging amp. I was after a Fenderish sort of sound, so I took a fairly random punt on a Jensen C12N. And that was it. What a difference! The amp just came to life and I now officially love it. Amazing what a difference the right (for you) speaker can make.

Dave_Mc

Eminence Red Fangs are pretty dark-sounding. Not sure it's worth spending the money if the Tone Tubby (which I haven't tried) is doing it for you already, though.

Reflex

Thanks @cirrus - I have a a p2p Tone King Sky King which came with the G12M 65.  Great sounding!  At first it was hard to distinguish between the TT and G12, however after a while it was obvious that the TT was richer, more dynamic with smoother highs…. The Webber’s or the Ruby sound like good shouts.

@Dave_mc @sigeon, I think it just goes to show it’s an amp/speaker synergy which as often as not, means it’s worth sticking with the stock speaker… unless you find that perfect match!

My only complaint with the TT is that It has a very faint lower register distortion, barely distinguishable and quite possibly what actually makes it so warm.  If I could cancel that out, there wouldn’t be any discussion for me.

Cirrus

Reflex said:

Thanks @cirrus - I have a a p2p Tone King Sky King which came with the G12M 65.  

Ah, different speaker though Celestion don't make it easy with their naming scheme. The one I'm talking of is the G12-65, now part of the "heritage" series but originally developed in the '70s as an antidote to the really bright Marshalls of the day.

There's also Scumback - there's a 65 watt alnico on eBay just now, I wasn't going to mention it in case I decided to bid on it but that seems mean spirited!  They're apparently smoother than the celestions that inspired them (while at the same time claiming to be the best recreation of said speakers, in an incredible feat of marketing having-your-cake-and-eat it double think)

Kebabkid

I don't know what else is like this particular speaker and so no help here on that but I had a 2x12 Tone Tubby cab that had this red alnico in it as well as their green ceramic one and it was a wonderful pairing. They call it the H-Bomb combo.

Cleans and overdrive sounded fabulous through it without being harsh and it was a big sound. However, it's the red one that comes up on forums as the ultimate speaker.

That combo might be one to try

Dodge

I liked the Tone Tubby red when I had one, they're nice speakers.  I'm a fan of hemp cones in general, and they all seem to round off the top and add some weight to the low mids.  I currently have the CRex 10 in my Super Champ which sounds ace.

I found the TT a little less sensitive than other speakers in my collection which made pairing it difficult, but in a 1x12 is sounded good.  I described it at the time as one of the best 'lead' tone speakers I'd ever owned, it wa punchy but not harsh and had a big bottom in an open backed cab.

I generally live at the edge of breakup rather than saturated leads, and for me I gravitated towards other speakers that gave me a touch more detail (i love bright amps like Vox Top Boosts and BF Fenders) so I moved it on.  But for a classic rock solo sound the TT is a great speaker.

Reflex

Thanks for the reply’s guys.  I’ll check the scum back out @cirrus (if you don’t buy it, that is ) would it not be a slightly more clinical sounding speaker to the TT though?

@kebadkid - happy steer clear of speaker pairings, sounds like an even bigger rabbit hole, I struggle with just getting 1 right!

Thanks for your thoughts @dodge, I mostly play jazz funk so am looking for detail and warmth which I’d say the TT produces very well. 

Dodge

Reflex said:

Thanks for your thoughts @dodge, I mostly play jazz funk so am looking for detail and warmth which I’d say the TT produces very well.  Did you notice a slight lower register warmth/ mild cross over distortion (for want of a better description) on the the Red?

I can't say I did, but it was a few years ago now.  I just remember it being a creamy sounding speaker that loved both gain (classic rock levels) and it liked to be worked hard.

Dave_Mc

Reflex said:

@Dave_mc @sigeon, I think it just goes to show it’s an amp/speaker synergy which as often as not, means it’s worth sticking with the stock speaker… unless you find that perfect match!

My only complaint with the TT is that It has a very faint lower register distortion, barely distinguishable and quite possibly what actually makes it so warm.  If I could cancel that out, there wouldn’t be any discussion for me.

Yeah. I mean- it depends what the stock speaker is. For a good while there everything just seemed to come with a Vintage 30! It's a great speaker for certain things, but it was fitted to some really inappropriate amps...

Reflex

Hi All

I just wanted to resurrect this thread as new NOS Brimar valves have presented a slightly warmer tonal change compared to the TAD’s

Since the last post I bought the Scumback SC65 watt alnico which you suggested @Cirrus.  It sounded amazing and possibly an improvement on the TT Red.  Problem was it made an incredibly loud buzzing noise, I don’t know if it was the speaker or the paring of amp/speaker, but sadly it couldn’t stay.  I’m now flipping between a Scumback M75 and the TT Red Alnico.  The M75 accentuates the mids whilst retaining most of what I like about the TT, but possibly sounds a touch too smooth.  As such my preference just about remains with the TT.

Reason for the bump is that I’m thinking of selling on the M75 and throwing the money at another Alnico.  I was considering a Celestion Cream but note your comments @Cirrus.  So asking for suggestions, again (would prefer to avoid vintage)….

Cirrus

Sounds unfortunate about the Scumback, coil rub maybe? Moot point if it's gone now.

Well, worth trying the cream. I had to go back and read what I said a year ago (I always have a moment of panic like "oh christ, what did I say? Do I even agree with myself?")

I think everyone's ears work differently, but how it sounds to me is that a 15w celestion alnico has a kind of bright top end with some crunch/ chime/ crushed glass but the brightness is over a wide frequency range, like white noise but,I guess musical? When it gets loud the top end stops getting louder before the mids, so it doesn't seem so bright any more. But you do need to get them loud.

Whereas the Gold and Cream... they have a more peaky top end, and it's less fizzy and more like a kind of ringy resonance up at like 3-4k or something. But there's less of the crushed glass fizz so if that peaky resonance works for your rig/ ears they'll sound smoother. So the Cream might work great, it's definitely got nice low mids.

I read the newer Fane A30/ A60 are more midrangey/ vowely than the celestion equivalents, but I've never heard one outside a youtube demo...

Emiel

I never had the two speakers right next to each other, but the Jensen Blackbird 100 is quite a similar speaker to the Tone Tubby Alnico Red. Both are big Alnico high wattage American style speakers. Big, thick, dark, punchy. Like them both!

Reflex

Emiel said:

I never had the two speakers right next to each other, but the Jensen Blackbird 100 is quite a similar speaker to the Tone Tubby Alnico Red. Both are big Alnico high wattage American style speakers. Big, thick, dark, punchy. Like them both!

Thanks @Emiel, the blackbird is definitely one I’d like to try, although if it’s that similar….

I had an Alnico WGS Blackhawk in a Rift I used to own, that seemed punchy and extremely well balanced.  Just wondering if these are top of their class, or if there’s an absolute gem I’m missing 

Dave_Mc

Cirrus said:
I had to go back and read what I said a year ago (I always have a moment of panic like "oh christ, what did I say? Do I even agree with myself?")

Yeah me too. Well with me it's more like, "Oh no, I probably said something which will make me look like a complete idiot!"

Apparently I said above that the Red Fang is pretty dark-sounding. I'm not sure it's that dark... I've tried it with a bunch more amps now and it may have been the amp which was the problem!

Reflex

Cirrus said:

Sounds unfortunate about the Scumback, coil rub maybe? Moot point if it's gone now.

Well, worth trying the cream. I had to go back and read what I said a year ago (I always have a moment of panic like "oh christ, what did I say? Do I even agree with myself?")

I think everyone's ears work differently, but how it sounds to me is that a 15w celestion alnico has a kind of bright top end with some crunch/ chime/ crushed glass but the brightness is over a wide frequency range, like white noise but,I guess musical? When it gets loud the top end stops getting louder before the mids, so it doesn't seem so bright any more. But you do need to get them loud.

Whereas the Gold and Cream... they have a more peaky top end, and it's less fizzy and more like a kind of ringy resonance up at like 3-4k or something. But there's less of the crushed glass fizz so if that peaky resonance works for your rig/ ears they'll sound smoother. So the Cream might work great, it's definitely got nice low mids.

I read the newer Fane A30/ A60 are more midrangey/ vowely than the celestion equivalents, but I've never heard one outside a youtube demo...

Crushed glass is a great description of high end bite

Its tricky because the amp (Tone King Sky King) does have quite pronounced highs, however I guess that’s what the treble knob is for.  The Cream could be a good shout.  Do you think it would accentuate the mids more than the TT?

MichaelAT

I've had two TT speakers, the Purple Haze and the ceramic 40/40. Both were lacking this brilliant high end that I love when playing clean. The 40/40 was incredible with OD, though, and sounded like the best Greenback I ever heard.

The Blackhawk HP is an awesome speaker and indeed a little bit softer in the top end. Great to tame bright Fenders. Also full bass.

I had the Jensen BB100 many years ago, but I sold it after a while as I didn't think it sounded particularly good. Currently I use the BB40s in a 2x12 and these I like a lot. Should get a BB100 again some day to compare, who knows how I would like it today...