Coverting a Les Paul to Jimmy Page style 'out of phase' wiring.

jfraze5150

I know Page has his two Les Pauls set up for a variety of tones but I really want to have that push/pull tone switch for the 'out of phase' tone. Anyone have experience? How easy is it? The Les Paul is a 2019 Traditional. Can you buy such a thing? 

Picture because I’ve figured out how to do it easily after about 7 years posting. 

SteveRobinson

I think that your pickups have braided 2-conductor cables? If so you'll need to modify one in order to change its phase.

Funkfingers

Actually, there are two different types of Page out-of-phase sound.

1) The simple two pickup Peter Green style.
2) The sound he would have got from the stock wiring on his black triple pickup LP Custom.

The distance between the selected pickups affects the comb filtering of frequencies.

jfraze5150

Funkfingers said:

Actually, there are two different types of Page out-of-phase sound.

1) The simple two pickup Peter Green style.
2) The sound he would have got from the stock wiring on his black triple pickup LP Custom.

The distance between the selected pickups affects the comb filtering of frequencies.

Did that not get pinched from a gig in New York in 1970?

jfraze5150

I have seen wiring harnesses for sale after a few Googles. The wiring on my stock pups is the issue though? 

I’m really a novice when it comes this. 

Devil#20

jfraze5150 said:

I have seen wiring harnesses for sale after a few Googles. The wiring on my stock pups is the issue though? 

I’m really a novice when it comes this. 

Here you go. It's pretty comprehesive.  https://amzn.eu/d/3M2Dmsu

roberty

jfraze5150 said:

The wiring on my stock pups is the issue though? 

A photo of the inside of the control cavity will tell us

ICBM

Funkfingers said:

2) The sound he would have got from the stock wiring on his black triple pickup LP Custom.

The stock 3-pickup Custom wiring is not out-of-phase - it’s the same as the bridge-and-middle position on a Strat, often called that when really it’s just the notch filtering of two closely-spaced parallel *in*-phase pickups.

It’s one of my favourite sounds on any Les Paul - like a Strat but without the irritating thinness .

stickyfiddle

Ok, a few things worth noting here. Full “jimmy page wiring” actually involves 4x push-pull pots, one for phase, two for coil splits for each pickup, and one for series/parallel wiring. 

You can buy entire wiring harnesses that do this but you probably don’t need all of that as the phase switch is usually the most interesting tonally. 

But regardless, the first thing you need to do is establish what’s already in your guitar. Open up the control cavity and see what is there - it’s probably single-conductor wire with a braided shield going to individual pots. Assuming that’s correct, you would only need to change one pot for a push-pull pot, but also mod or swap a pickup to enable the phase switching 

andy_k

I had an Edwards JP with the full wiring, 21 different sounds, but the OOP was probably the most interesting, some of the single coil settings were quite nice too though.

jfraze5150

stickyfiddle said:

Ok, a few things worth noting here. Full “jimmy page wiring” actually involves 4x push-pull pots, one for phase, two for coil splits for each pickup, and one for series/parallel wiring. 

You can buy entire wiring harnesses that do this but you probably don’t need all of that as the phase switch is usually the most interesting tonally. 

But regardless, the first thing you need to do is establish what’s already in your guitar. Open up the control cavity and see what is there - it’s probably single-conductor wire with a braided shield going to individual pots. Assuming that’s correct, you would only need to change one pot for a push-pull pot, but also mod or swap a pickup to enable the phase switching 

Spot on. I remember the JP signature guitars that came out in 97(?) that had 20+ options. Overkill I reckon. I just want to get that JP/Peter Green/BB King sound. 

jfraze5150

I’ll post a pic of the cavity when I get a chance. 

Funkfingers

The circuit commonly referred to as Jimmy Page wiring was actually created by Schecter Guitar Research back when they were just parts makers.

Some of Page's guitars have Freeway 6-way toggle selector switches. These give the three normal selections on one Bank and the Green-style phase reversal on the other Bank. (I cannot recall what the other two options were.)

Page has said in interviews that the Green sound is the only non-standard sound he wants and/or uses.

IMO, the best application for a JP wiring harness is pickup testing. Screw down terminals make for quick, solderless changes. 

ICBM said:

Funkfingers said:

2) The sound he would have got from the stock wiring on his black triple pickup LP Custom.

The stock 3-pickup Custom wiring is not out-of-phase - it’s the same as the bridge-and-middle position on a Strat, often called that when really it’s just the notch filtering of two closely-spaced parallel *in*-phase pickups.

It’s one of my favourite sounds on any Les Paul - like a Strat but without the irritating thinness .

That is a pretty accurate description of the sounds I get from selector switch positions 2 and 4 on my modified PRS EG3 II. (Three humbuckers, no coil splittage.)

rpr

Axetec do all the parts as a kit,  Can't get the link to work though 

sixstringsupplies

As long as your bridge humbucker has 4 conductor wiring you can wire a push pull pot to reverse phase 

https://sixstringsupplies.co.uk/collections/prewired-harnesses/products/les-paul-out-of-phase-wiring-harness

or you can wire it yourself 

https://sixstringsupplies.co.uk/pages/les-paul-out-of-phase-peter-green-mod

Funkfingers

sixstringsupplies said:

As long as your bridge humbucker has 4 conductor wiring you can wire a push pull pot to reverse phase 

TBH, two-conductor + shield cable à la mid Seventies would suffice.

Nice pre-wired harness, BTW. It is fortunate that only the outermost terminals of the push-pull pot PCB need to be accessible for home installation.