The F1 thread

Fretwired

Garthy said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

And Mercedes have a number one driver. They allow racing within the team but it is clear who the number one is. 


Hamilton won the Championship in Mexico with two races to go so you could claim that he took his foot off the gas for Abu Dhabi to allow Bottas to come in. But that overlooks Bottas beating him in quali and in the race in Russia and again in Austria (Hammy's grid penalty for Austria still meant Bottas beat him on the track). I don't think the claim for Hamilton having bad luck with mechanical issues stands up as most Ferrari fans could claim bad luck with mechanical issues stopped Vettel from winning the title. Really from Spa onwards it was Hamilton going up a gear, Bottas dropping off a bit, and Ferrari unreliability that brought Hamilton through. 

Now I totally agree that Bottas isn't an Alonso or Hamilton level driver. But I don't understand why there is such a clamour for someone better to go into that Mercedes. Barichello was never a top level driver but he did his role perfectly, and nobody could seriously argue that Ferrari and Schumacher would have done better with a better driver in there ahead of Rubens. For Mercedes as they are, after the fractious Ham-Rosberg scrap, someone a lot calmer like Bottas is no bad thing. 

Regarding 2017, it wasn't just the Ferrari unreliability that brought Hamilton through to win the title. Ferrari dropped the ball several times over the season such as Silverstone & Japan and Vettel dropped a lot of points in Baku and then an enormous amount in Singapore when Hamilton was the main beneficiary.

Hamilton only beat Vettel by 46 points, in his own hands SV lost 13 points in Baku and even the most pessimistic view would have had Singapore LH 1st, MV 2nd and SV 3rd which is a ten point loss but it's quite likely that the podium would have been the reverse of that so that was a 35 point swing in Hamilton's favour. Consistency won LH the WDC, his only mistake if I remember correctly was in Brazil after the title was already wrapped up.

^^
This. Spot on. But then F1 is a team sport and Ferrari should have won last year but screwed up on more than one occasion.

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

And Mercedes have a number one driver. They allow racing within the team but it is clear who the number one is. 

No they don't. Ferrari  has a number one driver as Kimi found out at Monaco last year. He should have won that race.

Heartfeltdawn

Hamilton is not heralded as the number one driver but there is plenty of articles out there with comments from Wolff where it is equivalent to 'don't ask, don't tell'. China last year was the first installation. 

As for all of this commentary about needing a tough driver to push Hamilton... try Toto again. 

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/133981/bottas-changed-mercedes-thinking-on-drivers

Perhaps Toto is a bit more worried about the Mercs this year than in the past. 

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

Hamilton is not heralded as the number one driver but there is plenty of articles out there with comments from Wolff where it is equivalent to 'don't ask, don't tell'. China last year was the first installation. 

As for all of this commentary about needing a tough driver to push Hamilton... try Toto again. 

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/133981/bottas-changed-mercedes-thinking-on-drivers

Perhaps Toto is a bit more worried about the Mercs this year than in the past. 

That link is bollocks. Check back on one of my other links. The Rosberg/Hamilton partnership was toxic but it pushed both drivers and other teams are now thinking you need two top drivers to push each other to perform. Not sure where that article originated but Woolf is on record as saying he thinks a Rosberg/Hamilton style partnership delivers results. Bottas is average and perhaps its affecting Hamilton. They are both in third gear.

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

And Mercedes have a number one driver. They allow racing within the team but it is clear who the number one is. 

No they don't. Ferrari  has a number one driver as Kimi found out at Monaco last year. He should have won that race.

Officially they don't. Don't ask, don't tell. 

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/130001/vettel-is-not-number-one--raikkonen

So both Ferrari and Mercedes deny that they have a number one driver but we know what's what 'cos we're cool. 

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

Fretwired said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

And Mercedes have a number one driver. They allow racing within the team but it is clear who the number one is. 

No they don't. Ferrari  has a number one driver as Kimi found out at Monaco last year. He should have won that race.

Officially they don't. Don't ask, don't tell. 

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/130001/vettel-is-not-number-one--raikkonen

So both Ferrari and Mercedes deny that they have a number one driver but we know what's what 'cos we're cool. 

Mercedes don't have a number one driver. Rosberg has said as much. Bottas could have ben asked to move over for Hamilton last year to help Hamilton. Never happened. Kimi had a victory in Monaco taken away from him last year. Ferrari have a track record in supporting one driver over the other.

Garthy

There is no way on this earth Raikkonen has parity with Vettel, Not once in 3 and a bit seasons has he been given a better strategy than Vettel and on many occasions he's been a guinea pig, such as in Bahrain last week which ended in a DNF.

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

I see that bang average back-up driver Bottas is currently winning the race, with Hamilton struggling in 4th.

Also, if anyone had any doubt about Kimi's cast iron No 2/dogsbody status, it's surely just been confirmed. Kimi used by the team as a mobile road block to back up Bottas, then told not to fight back, then pitted to leave him stranded in 6th place. Classy stuff...

stickyfiddle

Aaaand Max trying too hard AGAIN.

Go DannyRic!

stickyfiddle

YESSSSSSSS!!!

stickyfiddle

At this point it's getting hilarious with Max... But Ricciardo is making himself look *really* good

"Dickhead" indeed...

And Hulk looking quietly very very competent. Will he become more attractive to bigger teams when the seat+driver weight rule comes in next year?

Heartfeltdawn

Garthy said:

There is no way on this earth Raikkonen has parity with Vettel, Not once in 3 and a bit seasons has he been given a better strategy than Vettel and on many occasions he's been a guinea pig, such as in Bahrain last week which ended in a DNF.

Of course not. Everyone knows who is number 1 is at Ferrari. 

Fretwired said:

Mercedes don't have a number one driver. Rosberg has said as much. Bottas could have ben asked to move over for Hamilton last year to help Hamilton. Never happened. Kimi had a victory in Monaco taken away from him last year. Ferrari have a track record in supporting one driver over the other.

In the Rosberg-Hamilton days, I would agree with you. But Bottas is not Rosberg and this is not 2016.

stickyfiddle

Heartfeltdawn said:

Garthy said:

There is no way on this earth Raikkonen has parity with Vettel, Not once in 3 and a bit seasons has he been given a better strategy than Vettel and on many occasions he's been a guinea pig, such as in Bahrain last week which ended in a DNF.

Of course not. Everyone knows who is number 1 is at Ferrari. 

Fretwired said:

Mercedes don't have a number one driver. Rosberg has said as much. Bottas could have ben asked to move over for Hamilton last year to help Hamilton. Never happened. Kimi had a victory in Monaco taken away from him last year. Ferrari have a track record in supporting one driver over the other.

In the Rosberg-Hamilton days, I would agree with you. But Bottas is not Rosberg and this is not 2016.

I think it's pretty clear that Mercedes don't have a driver who is contractually "number 2", but clearly Bottas isn't as quick as Ham most of the time and so it's irrelevant. And it's clear Mercedes are happy with that. Bottas did everything right today, when Hamilton couldn't get to the front. It's exactly what you want from your non-star driver

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

Hamilton is not heralded as the number one driver but there is plenty of articles out there with comments from Wolff where it is equivalent to 'don't ask, don't tell'. China last year was the first installation. 

As for all of this commentary about needing a tough driver to push Hamilton... try Toto again. 

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/133981/bottas-changed-mercedes-thinking-on-drivers

Perhaps Toto is a bit more worried about the Mercs this year than in the past. 

That link is bollocks. Check back on one of my other links. The Rosberg/Hamilton partnership was toxic but it pushed both drivers and other teams are now thinking you need two top drivers to push each other to perform. Not sure where that article originated but Woolf is on record as saying he thinks a Rosberg/Hamilton style partnership delivers results. Bottas is average and perhaps its affecting Hamilton. They are both in third gear.

OK. My links featuring Toto Wolff's words is bollocks. If Infowars has an F1 section, I'll start quoting from that instead.

So! The end of another race. Averagebot is still third in the drivers championship despite being average, Kimi is still fifth and not average, and the team most closely aligned to Fret's formula of two top drivers pushing one another aka Red Bull Racing can celebrate a victory for one driver and another trying too hard followed by detention and lines weekend for the other. 

Another fine Alonso performance. It's bloody great seeing great drivers in shit cars wringing as much as they can from it. 

Team that should be shitting itself the most: Williams with the two adolescents is no surprise but 1 point for Force India is very poor. 

Ferrari take 19 points to move to 84 in the Constructors Championship. Hamilton and Averagebot take 30 points to move to 85. 

Heartfeltdawn

stickyfiddle said:

I think it's pretty clear that Mercedes don't have a driver who is contractually "number 2", but clearly Bottas isn't as quick as Ham most of the time and so it's irrelevant. And it's clear Mercedes are happy with that. Bottas did everything right today, when Hamilton couldn't get to the front. It's exactly what you want from your non-star driver

Absolutely. There is nowt on contract that says LH is 1 and VB is 2 but there is an undoubted pecking order. Averagebot drove a really good race today. 

Fretwired

Poor old Kimi - whose number one at Ferrari? Vettel. Woolf should dump Bottas and sign Ricciardo - a class act who can drive fast and overtake without taking people out. Mad Max needs a one race ban - a complete twat as usual. His penalty was a joke.

Merc screwed Hamilton's strategy yet again and I felt sorry for Vettel. Entertaining race though.

Heartfeltdawn

Nay, the Averagebot did his job today. Toto looked pissy in Australia when he crashed but the failure today was Mercedes themselves. Again. 

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

Nay, the Averagebot did his job today. Toto looked pissy in Australia when he crashed but the failure today was Mercedes themselves. Again. 

He was good today but some things played into his hands. I'd rather have Ricciardo than Bottas.

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

Nay, the Averagebot did his job today. Toto looked pissy in Australia when he crashed but the failure today was Mercedes themselves. Again. 

He was good today but some things played into his hands.

Credit where credit is due, Bottas beat all of the people ahead of him in the championship this weekend. 

A load played into Ricciardo's hands but that doesn't detract from his performance today. It's nailed him on as the one driver to step in when Hammy or Vettel move teams or leave the sport.

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

Fretwired said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

Nay, the Averagebot did his job today. Toto looked pissy in Australia when he crashed but the failure today was Mercedes themselves. Again. 

He was good today but some things played into his hands.

Credit where credit is due, Bottas beat all of the people ahead of him in the championship this weekend. 

A load played into Ricciardo's hands but that doesn't detract from his performance today. It's nailed him on as the one driver to step in when Hammy or Vettel move teams or leave the sport.

I agree .. you always need some luck .. Hamilton's not getting much right now but he can thank Mad Max for destroying Vettel's race .. if he can get a competitive car Ricciardo looks like a future world champion .. and he's a nice bloke. Max will be fuming.