The F1 thread

stickyfiddle

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

Anyhoo, Bottas apparently not impressed with Toto's "wingman" comment. I'm sure Toto didn't mean it in a bad way, but if Bottas has only just realised that he's obviously the new Barrichello then he should probably get used to it, or get his elbows out more... It's not that Ham is contractual #1, just that he's quicker 80% of the time so he doesn't need to be

Bottas was OK with it in the end ...

Bottas said "I was disappointed with my end result and saw everything in a negative way for a moment. I know what he [Wolff] meant. He would have said the same about Lewis if he'd been in the same situation. We are on equal terms and I trust that 100% on that. All good."

Of course. They're on absolutely equal terms contractually, and the team's policy is to let them race, which Bottas just isn't quite quick enough to win most of the time. 

I really like the guy, he's just a fraction below the Button/Rosberg kind of level, which isn't going to be enough to beat Lewis on a regular basis. Frankly there's almost noone up there who could. Maybe 4 of the current drivers? Alonso, Vettel, Ricciardo & Verstappen probably 

Fretwired

stickyfiddle said:

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

Anyhoo, Bottas apparently not impressed with Toto's "wingman" comment. I'm sure Toto didn't mean it in a bad way, but if Bottas has only just realised that he's obviously the new Barrichello then he should probably get used to it, or get his elbows out more... It's not that Ham is contractual #1, just that he's quicker 80% of the time so he doesn't need to be

Bottas was OK with it in the end ...

Bottas said "I was disappointed with my end result and saw everything in a negative way for a moment. I know what he [Wolff] meant. He would have said the same about Lewis if he'd been in the same situation. We are on equal terms and I trust that 100% on that. All good."

Of course. They're on absolutely equal terms contractually, and the team's policy is to let them race, which Bottas just isn't quite quick enough to win most of the time. 

I really like the guy, he's just a fraction below the Button/Rosberg kind of level, which isn't going to be enough to beat Lewis on a regular basis. Frankly there's almost noone up there who could. Maybe 4 of the current drivers? Alonso, Vettel, Ricciardo & Verstappen probably 

True.

I wonder if Vettel will be under pressure at Ferrari. The guy made mistakes last year which cost Ferrari dear and is making too many mistakes this year. Hamilton is generally stronger in the second half of the season and no matter what Wolff says he will use Bottas as a rear gunner to help Hamilton when the situation demands. Are we in for another Vettel meltdown ... :-)

thumpingrug

stickyfiddle said:

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

Anyhoo, Bottas apparently not impressed with Toto's "wingman" comment. I'm sure Toto didn't mean it in a bad way, but if Bottas has only just realised that he's obviously the new Barrichello then he should probably get used to it, or get his elbows out more... It's not that Ham is contractual #1, just that he's quicker 80% of the time so he doesn't need to be

Bottas was OK with it in the end ...

Bottas said "I was disappointed with my end result and saw everything in a negative way for a moment. I know what he [Wolff] meant. He would have said the same about Lewis if he'd been in the same situation. We are on equal terms and I trust that 100% on that. All good."

Of course. They're on absolutely equal terms contractually, 

I bet they are not on equal pay.  Lewis will be paid much more.  Its very clear that he is the No 1 within the team.

Fretwired

thumpingrug said:

stickyfiddle said:

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

Anyhoo, Bottas apparently not impressed with Toto's "wingman" comment. I'm sure Toto didn't mean it in a bad way, but if Bottas has only just realised that he's obviously the new Barrichello then he should probably get used to it, or get his elbows out more... It's not that Ham is contractual #1, just that he's quicker 80% of the time so he doesn't need to be

Bottas was OK with it in the end ...

Bottas said "I was disappointed with my end result and saw everything in a negative way for a moment. I know what he [Wolff] meant. He would have said the same about Lewis if he'd been in the same situation. We are on equal terms and I trust that 100% on that. All good."

Of course. They're on absolutely equal terms contractually, 

I bet they are not on equal pay.  Lewis will be paid much more.  Its very clear that he is the No 1 within the team.

Lewis is a four time world champion - he's worth more. He's also the one driver that an average person might recognise.

Bernie famously said of Nico Rosberg - "From a pure business aspect - sorry Nico if I have to say this - you are not so good for my business."

And on Toto .. "Take away Toto Wolff's Mercedes shirt and send him down a street - nobody would recognise him."

And on Vettel .. "Sebastian is also not doing much for F1. People hardly recognise him on the street." This was in response to falling numbers at the German Grand Prix whereas Hamilton manages to drag people into the British Grand Prix and Verstappen is emulating Lewis with a large fan base which turned out in force in Austria and Germany. Its looking like there will be a Dutch Grand Prix to tap into Verstappen's popularity - and at least he has a spark and some personality.

And on Lewis .. "I still believe that Lewis is the best champion that we have had in a long, long time," said Ecclestone. He manages to get to all different walks of life: red carpet, fashion business, and music - you name it. When it comes to F1, I am a huge Lewis fan because he is a super promoter of the sport."

Love or loathe him Lewis is a brand. He hangs out with A-listers and dodgy rap stars and helps sell Mercedes cars.

Bottas is improving as driver and deserved a new contract. He seems a nice guy but God he's boring .. at least Lewis as an emotional spark.

Cols

stickyfiddle said:

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

Anyhoo, Bottas apparently not impressed with Toto's "wingman" comment. I'm sure Toto didn't mean it in a bad way, but if Bottas has only just realised that he's obviously the new Barrichello then he should probably get used to it, or get his elbows out more... It's not that Ham is contractual #1, just that he's quicker 80% of the time so he doesn't need to be

Bottas was OK with it in the end ...

Bottas said "I was disappointed with my end result and saw everything in a negative way for a moment. I know what he [Wolff] meant. He would have said the same about Lewis if he'd been in the same situation. We are on equal terms and I trust that 100% on that. All good."

Of course. They're on absolutely equal terms contractually, and the team's policy is to let them race, which Bottas just isn't quite quick enough to win most of the time. 

I really like the guy, he's just a fraction below the Button/Rosberg kind of level, which isn't going to be enough to beat Lewis on a regular basis. Frankly there's almost noone up there who could. Maybe 4 of the current drivers? Alonso, Vettel, Ricciardo & Verstappen probably 

I can see how it wasn’t a pleasant comment to hear after such a gruelling race, but it’s reasonably obvious that that from the first corner onwards his job was to back the Ferraris up and allow Lewis to hare off in the distance.  The objective of Mercedes is always to win the race, and that was the strategy that worked that time.

If the positions were reversed and Bottas had led into the first corner, it would have been Lewis who would’ve been asked to fight a rearguard action.  The difference is, I’m pretty sure that in such a case Lewis would’ve ignored the team strategy and driven in his own interests.

Fretwired

Cols said:

The difference is, I’m pretty sure that in such a case Lewis would’ve ignored the team strategy and driven in his own interests.

Not sure. Hamilton gave a place back to Bottas in an earlier race as promised and threw away points. Wolff has said the two were free to race .. Bottas couldn't keep up with Hamilton. There was no team strategy at that point. If there were Mercedes wouldn't have got Bottas to cover off Raikkonen's early pitstop - they'd have left him out to slow Vettel down. The team were clearly trying for a one, two podium finish.

Garthy

stickyfiddle said:

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

Anyhoo, Bottas apparently not impressed with Toto's "wingman" comment. I'm sure Toto didn't mean it in a bad way, but if Bottas has only just realised that he's obviously the new Barrichello then he should probably get used to it, or get his elbows out more... It's not that Ham is contractual #1, just that he's quicker 80% of the time so he doesn't need to be

Bottas was OK with it in the end ...

Bottas said "I was disappointed with my end result and saw everything in a negative way for a moment. I know what he [Wolff] meant. He would have said the same about Lewis if he'd been in the same situation. We are on equal terms and I trust that 100% on that. All good."

Of course. They're on absolutely equal terms contractually, and the team's policy is to let them race, which Bottas just isn't quite quick enough to win most of the time. 

I really like the guy, he's just a fraction below the Button/Rosberg kind of level, which isn't going to be enough to beat Lewis on a regular basis. Frankly there's almost noone up there who could. Maybe 4 of the current drivers? Alonso, Vettel, Ricciardo & Verstappen probably 

There’s no way three of those could beat him regularly. Verstappen has lost points hand over fist through stupidity this year despite this being his fourth season and no title pressure. 

Vettel- couldn’t do it last year with a better car and is 24 points behind this year with a faster car. He also needs his car to be perfect as Webber and Ricciardo have shown.

Ricciardo can be magic but on occasion he has had anonymous races or has been plain blitzed by Max when he keeps it together. If he could sort his consistency then he could be a WDC but not with LH as a team mate.

Which leaves Alonso- one of the all time greats but this answer is quite complicated as his fortunes would depend on the team they raced for: Merc runs one strategy which benefits the lead car and rarely allows the following car to jump the lead car in pit stops or alt strategy which means FA would have to outqualify LH which he couldn’t do in 2007 and LH would have only got better in the last ten years.

Ferrari- would depend who was #1 and who was #2.

FA may have a chance if both raced for RBR, Renault or Mclaren as both run dual independent races where possible, and that’s if FA could keep his mouth shut and not politic a predicament for himself while LH grinds away.

Boromedic

Thank you for typing that, saved me writing a long message! Agree 100% with the above the only person who beats Lewis regularly is Lewis himself. 

stickyfiddle

Red Bull has confirmed DannyRic is leaving. Racefans reporting he’s going to Renault, which makes a lot of sense as a long term plan I think.

Should keep the summer break interesting!

Cols

That’ll start the dominos falling.

Cols

Sainz’ll be for Red Bull then.  Ocon was tipped to move to Renault in place of Sainz; I guess DR has just blocked that one.  McLaren will be looking for someone as well; Sainz was due to go there after Red Bull signed Ricciardo...

thumpingrug

It seems like a backwards move to me for DR.  He's going from the 3rd team on the grid to one thats further behind.  Im surprised Red Bull haven't fought more to keep him.

stickyfiddle

Cols said:

Sainz’ll be for Red Bull then.  Ocon was tipped to move to Renault in place of Sainz; I guess DR has just blocked that one.  McLaren will be looking for someone as well; Sainz was due to go there after Red Bull signed Ricciardo...

I'm not so sure re Sainz. Max will want a firm #2 and won't accept Carlos, and Carlos won't accept playing #2 to Max. 

I'm still hoping RB grow a pair and hire Alonso on a one-year deal, though with Honda engines he may not be keen!

boogieman

thumpingrug said:

It seems like a backwards move to me for DR.  He's going from the 3rd team on the grid to one thats further behind.  Im surprised Red Bull haven't fought more to keep him.

RB have got the Honda engine next year. Maybe Ricciardo doesn’t trust it enough to stay. 

Cols

thumpingrug said:

It seems like a backwards move to me for DR.  He's going from the 3rd team on the grid to one thats further behind.  Im surprised Red Bull haven't fought more to keep him.

I suspect Red Bull refused to come anywhere near matching Ricciardo's salary to Verstappen's, and that was the deal breaker.  It's difficult to feel valued when the guy you're outperforming is getting paid more than twice as much as you.

stickyfiddle

boogieman said:

thumpingrug said:

It seems like a backwards move to me for DR.  He's going from the 3rd team on the grid to one thats further behind.  Im surprised Red Bull haven't fought more to keep him.

RB have got the Honda engine next year. Maybe Ricciardo doesn’t trust it enough to stay. 

Yep. Red Bull are taking Honda engines next year, and will most likely have the same packaging/cooling issues that McLaren had and that RB are now having with the Renault PU. And it's clearly Max's team first and foremost. 

Renault is a works team who've moved up the grid every season since they rejoined, and have eventually won every time they've been in F1. He's also going to be partnered with Hulkenberg who is a great guy and not a twat. And I'm guessing they're paying him more, and giving him much better assurances of parity/preference as required.

thumpingrug

I hope he trounces MV at every opportunity, next year.

Fretwired

Cols said:

thumpingrug said:

It seems like a backwards move to me for DR.  He's going from the 3rd team on the grid to one thats further behind.  Im surprised Red Bull haven't fought more to keep him.

I suspect Red Bull refused to come anywhere near matching Ricciardo's salary to Verstappen's, and that was the deal breaker.  It's difficult to feel valued when the guy you're outperforming is getting paid more than twice as much as you.

Could be or he looked at Lewis and Seb and worked out his own chance of winning a championship is to be in a works car. Renault are competitive and are likely to raise their game. Red Bull will face issues next year with Honda - it's a stop gap until they get their own engine (if the regs change and engines become simpler).

Cols

Fretwired said:

Cols said:

thumpingrug said:

It seems like a backwards move to me for DR.  He's going from the 3rd team on the grid to one thats further behind.  Im surprised Red Bull haven't fought more to keep him.

I suspect Red Bull refused to come anywhere near matching Ricciardo's salary to Verstappen's, and that was the deal breaker.  It's difficult to feel valued when the guy you're outperforming is getting paid more than twice as much as you.

Could be or he looked at Lewis and Seb and worked out his own chance of winning a championship is to be in a works car. Renault are competitive and are likely to raise their game. Red Bull will face issues next year with Honda - it's a stop gap until they get their own engine (if the regs change and engines become simpler).

Quite possibly; Honda's ultimate performance seems much improved from last year, but their reliability is still shocking.  Red Bull seem to have the worst engine reliability of all the teams using Renault engines, so it could be the installation is somehow compromising reliability.  Ricciardo may prefer a team where the chassis and engine departments are on the same page.

In other news, I've read unsubstantiated reports that Verstappen has a power of veto over any replacement for Ricciardo.  Bad news for Sainz if that's true.

Fretwired

Mansour Ojjeh has unexpectedly resigned after more than 30 years on the McLaren Formula 1 team's board. Still a director of McLaren Group. Changes afoot?