The F1 thread

Cols

Seems odd, but I suppose he is in his 60s and maybe wants to take a step back.  

Cols

Pop Stroll has bailed Force India out.  That’ll be young Lance off there next year then.

Force India: Formula 1 team to come out of administration http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula-one/45105296

stickyfiddle

The Findia thing is great news. The best team on the grid finally get some job security and hopefully a bit more cash to play with. And we will finally get to see whether Stroll can repeat his Baku & Monza performances on a regular basis. 

“Force Canandia”??

Hopefully Ocon can get himself into a Haas rather than a Williams for next year...

FX_Munkee

You have to worry about Williams finance/future though.

stickyfiddle

FX_Munkee said:

You have to worry about Williams finance/future though.

Yup  

Though you have to wonder how Williams are getting it *so* wrong when according to most sources they have a similar budget as FI. 

Mind you McLaren are spending at least double and being very nearly as shit, so maybe it's primarily crap management.

Heartfeltdawn

When you get it wrong in F1, there's no hiding place. You could equally ask why Ferrari never got it right in Alonso's time: best driver, best budget, but still produced some very average cars. 

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

When you get it wrong in F1, there's no hiding place. You could equally ask why Ferrari never got it right in Alonso's time: best driver, best budget, but still produced some very average cars. 

Wis ...

Fretwired

FX_Munkee said:

You have to worry about Williams finance/future though.

Not really - Williams as a company makes money and they have some great tech some of which has nothing to do with cars. Claire's going to have to swallow her pride and partner with someone. Porsche are rumoured to be interested in F1 and BMW have seen the success Mercedes hare having - they could follow Honda and return. Brawn says there are several manufacturers interested pending agreement on new simpler and cheaper engines.

Cols

Maldonado was bringing a similarly sized wheelbarrow full of cash as Stroll is, and Williams survived his departure.  It’s just unfortunate timing as they’re having such a shocker of a season, but they’ll bounce back.

stickyfiddle

Cols said:

Maldonado was bringing a similarly sized wheelbarrow full of cash as Stroll is, and Williams survived his departure.  It’s just unfortunate timing as they’re having such a shocker of a season, but they’ll bounce back.

Maldonado left just as they got Mercedes engines for the start of the hybrid era. Combined with Pat Symonds spotting they had shitloads of power and no money to develop shit-hot aero and they elected for a low downforce/low drag thing, which worked brilliantly while the Mercedes engines were so dominant. 

I can't see them having the same luck this time. I don't think they'll go under, as there's a fundamental business behind the F1 team that's actually very successful, but I can't see them getting above last place at least until the new regs come in.

I'm still far from convinced that Paddy is a good enough lead...

Fretwired

stickyfiddle said:

I'm still far from convinced that Paddy is a good enough lead...

Williams need cash. However, they never be anything more than a midfield team. I can't see teams like McLaren or Williams winning championships whilst there are the likes of Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull with deep pockets.

Garthy

Heartfeltdawn said:

When you get it wrong in F1, there's no hiding place. You could equally ask why Ferrari never got it right in Alonso's time: best driver, best budget, but still produced some very average cars. 

Because they were competing against a team that circumvented the RRA agreements for wind tunnel time and computer performance by using a parent company. As soon as the engines were unfrozen RBR were left trailing when Merc and Ferrari could fully unleash their R&D departments on a level playing field. 

Modellista

There was an interesting discussion on the BBC podcast about why it could just be the drivers to blame for Williams' woes.  Outliers aside, Stroll was about a second off the pace of Massa on a fairly regular basis.   And that was in Massa's twilight years.  Because the team doesn't have a proven driver in the car, nobody really knows if the car is truly off the pace or whether it's just poor driving that has them at the bottom.  If the latter, it's not going to do much for morale back at the factory when Claire keeps blaming the car when in reality that's not the problem.

simonk

modellista said:

There was an interesting discussion on the BBC podcast about why it could just be the drivers to blame for Williams' woes.  Outliers aside, Stroll was about a second off the pace of Massa on a fairly regular basis.   And that was in Massa's twilight years.  Because the team doesn't have a proven driver in the car, nobody really knows if the car is truly off the pace or whether it's just poor driving that has them at the bottom.  If the latter, it's not going to do much for morale back at the factory when Claire keeps blaming the car when in reality that's not the problem.

Didn’t Kubica state not so long back that the car was basically undrivable and it required all your concentration to just keep it on the track? 

Cols

simonk said:

modellista said:

There was an interesting discussion on the BBC podcast about why it could just be the drivers to blame for Williams' woes.  Outliers aside, Stroll was about a second off the pace of Massa on a fairly regular basis.   And that was in Massa's twilight years.  Because the team doesn't have a proven driver in the car, nobody really knows if the car is truly off the pace or whether it's just poor driving that has them at the bottom.  If the latter, it's not going to do much for morale back at the factory when Claire keeps blaming the car when in reality that's not the problem.

Didn’t Kubica state not so long back that the car was basically undrivable and it required all your concentration to just keep it on the track? 

He certainly did, quite laconically describing the car as ‘hard work’.  The 2018 Williams has a fundamental aero problem manifesting itself as instability under braking and on corner entry.

A top line driver might be able to drag it a bit further up the grid, consistently making it into Q2.  For a rookie, it’s understandable that not having any confidence about what the car is going to do when you turn into the corner is not ideal when you’re trying to gain experience and progress.

Mind you, I’ve long maintained that F1 cars should be fast, brutal ill-tempered beasts which are difficult to drive quickly and punish mistakes harshly.  In that respect, Williams have got their 2018 car design spot on.

Heartfeltdawn

Garthy said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

When you get it wrong in F1, there's no hiding place. You could equally ask why Ferrari never got it right in Alonso's time: best driver, best budget, but still produced some very average cars. 

Because they were competing against a team that circumvented the RRA agreements for wind tunnel time and computer performance by using a parent company. As soon as the engines were unfrozen RBR were left trailing when Merc and Ferrari could fully unleash their R&D departments on a level playing field. 

Which was also compounded by the Maranello wind tunnel being shite.

RBR were left trailing: hardly a surprise that the teams building their own engines end up walking away from the rest. Level playing fields don't exist in F1. 

Garthy

Alonso is retiring.

Fretwired

Garthy said:

Alonso is retiring.

Off to Indie car? I wonder how long Hamilton will hang around?

Cols

Sad news.  He’s still at the top of his game, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see him in Indy next year.

stickyfiddle

I don't blame him one iota. McLaren are years off having a good car again and Merc/Ferrari don't even want Ricciardo, never mind him. And coming from the euphoria of winning Le Mans to a DNF from p12 (ish?)

I reckon he'll target to win the WEC superseason, then go full tilt into Indy to win the 500 and the overall title and get the ultimate triple crown.

I very much look forward to watching him try