The F1 thread

Cols

TimmyO said:

Cols said:

sweepy said:

Cols said:

I’m fascinated to know how one can “simply take a shallower line back on to the track” while bouncing across the grass with the back end snaking all over the place.

It’s the telemetry showing that he floored the throttle to rejoin the track and the steering angle that gave it away to the stewards

I can’t find this telemetry anywhere, or even a reference to it from the stewards.  Do you have a source?

The stewards have access to and use the telemetry. I can't prove that to you, you either accept it or you don't. 

Autosport.com reported on what some of that telemetry showed, they didn't cite a source but are a trusted outlet and haven't been challenged over it. 

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/143996/vettel-steering-inputs-key-to-fia-penalty-decision

Yep, I saw that one already.  It mentions steering inputs and a move of the helmet; nothing about ‘flooring the throttle’.  While I’m sure the stewards have access to telemetry, they didn’t mention it.  Sweepy seems to have conjured this one from thin air (unless he’s one of the stewards).

TimmyO

or you know, just fucking drop it and get on with life 

Haych

At risk of not dropping it (Sorry TimmyO) there's one bit I don't understand.

Vettel went off track, I don't belive he deliberately tried to block Hamilton when he rejoined - I think he was just trying to keep the car under control. 

But, Vettel maintained race position by going off track.  At the point that he rejoined Hamilton was faster and was about to pass, had he not slammed on the anchors to avoid Vettel he would have gained 1st place.

Regardless of whether Vettel's actions were deliberate or whether he was unsafe etc, he cut a corner, went off track and maintained race lead as a result.  Only my opinion but Vettel should have been required to let Hamilton pass.  End of. 

Had he done that he would have had time left during the race to fight to regain 1st place; no sulking, no tantrums, no bad feeling, no debate, all fair and square. 

So I don't necessarily agree with the decision of the stewards but I do agree that the net result is correct under the circumstances.

TimmyO

Haych said:

At risk of not dropping it (Sorry TimmyO) there's one bit I don't understand.

Vettel went off track, I don't belive he deliberately tried to block Hamilton when he rejoined - I think he was just trying to keep the car under control. 

But, Vettel maintained race position by going off track.  At the point that he rejoined Hamilton was faster and was about to pass, had he not slammed on the anchors to avoid Vettel he would have gained 1st place.

Regardless of whether Vettel's actions were deliberate or whether he was unsafe etc, he cut a corner, went off track and maintained race lead as a result.  Only my opinion but Vettel should have been required to let Hamilton pass.  End of. 

Had he done that he would have had time left during the race to fight to regain 1st place; no sulking, no tantrums, no bad feeling, no debate, all fair and square. 

So I don't necessarily agree with the decision of the stewards but I do agree that the net result is correct under the circumstances.

No there are 2 different "offences" - the gaining an advantage outside track limits is one, but rejoining the circuit in an unsafe manner is another, with potentially tougher sanctions. 

Haych

I get that. What I was trying to get across was that Vettel maintained the lead by going off track, nobody seems to be bothered by it but are more worried about a 5 second penalty for unsafe driving. 

The result is just even if the way of getting there isn’t. That was my point. I knew what I meant in any case

TimmyO

Haych said:

I get that. What I was trying to get across was that Vettel maintained the lead by going off track, nobody seems to be bothered by it but are more worried about a 5 second penalty for unsafe driving. 

The result is just even if the way of getting there isn’t. That was my point. I knew what I meant in any case

I think the former is moot as a result of the latter 

TimmyO

and it's the latter that Vettel is making a tit of himself over.

Although I see Ferrari have now realised that they can't appeal as they don't have new evidence. 

Garthy

Cols said:

TimmyO said:

Cols said:

sweepy said:

Cols said:

I’m fascinated to know how one can “simply take a shallower line back on to the track” while bouncing across the grass with the back end snaking all over the place.

It’s the telemetry showing that he floored the throttle to rejoin the track and the steering angle that gave it away to the stewards

I can’t find this telemetry anywhere, or even a reference to it from the stewards.  Do you have a source?

The stewards have access to and use the telemetry. I can't prove that to you, you either accept it or you don't. 

Autosport.com reported on what some of that telemetry showed, they didn't cite a source but are a trusted outlet and haven't been challenged over it. 

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/143996/vettel-steering-inputs-key-to-fia-penalty-decision

Yep, I saw that one already.  It mentions steering inputs and a move of the helmet; nothing about ‘flooring the throttle’.  While I’m sure the stewards have access to telemetry, they didn’t mention it.  Sweepy seems to have conjured this one from thin air (unless he’s one of the stewards).

This was readily available to fans subscribing to the F1 app:  

https://thumbsnap.com/sc/79WqLpe6.png

On F1technical there are screen grabs of Ricciardo running wide at T4 and rejoining as one would expect, to the left of the track so he didn’t get punted up the arse by Raikkonen who like Hamilton went for a space on the right.

Hoof

Haych said:

I get that. What I was trying to get across was that Vettel maintained the lead by going off track, nobody seems to be bothered by it but are more worried about a 5 second penalty for unsafe driving. 

The result is just even if the way of getting there isn’t. That was my point. I knew what I meant in any case

Vettel didn't maintain the lead or gain any kind of advantage by going off track, he had a reasonably comfortable gap before he went off and had LH right up his arse when he came back on. What kind of advantage is that? You seem to be suggesting he cut the corner to cheat.

Cols

TimmyO said:

or you know, just fucking drop it and get on with life 

Christ, who pissed in your cornflakes this morning?  That’s one step off “We won, you lost, get over it”.

Did you miss the part where it’s a discussion thread?

TimmyO

Cols said:

TimmyO said:

or you know, just fucking drop it and get on with life 

Christ, who pissed in your cornflakes this morning?  That’s one step off “We won, you lost, get over it”.

Did you miss the part where it’s a discussion thread?

I seldom come back to this thread tbh, despite F1 being my favourite sport. It seems to be home to folk intent on being the most right, rather than discussing the sport. So aye, 'discuss' away

markr76

I went to look at the winners trophies today. They were very nice.

Modellista

Cols said:

TimmyO said:

or you know, just fucking drop it and get on with life 

Christ, who pissed in your cornflakes this morning?  That’s one step off “We won, you lost, get over it”.

Did you miss the part where it’s a discussion thread?

^ this. 

Modellista

Garthy said:

Modellista said:

Only a sicko would watch in the hope of a thrill through seeing injuries and death. Nobody’s suggesting that. 

What I am suggesting though, is that driving at high speeds and dicing with other drivers who are determined to screw you so they can prosper, is inherently unsafe. Doing something unsafe in order to win is the very heart of motorsport. 

No it really isn’t. It has never ever been acceptable to try and run your competitors into a wall. It was no better than some of Schumacher’s most defining moments. 

I meant simply getting in the car and driving competitively at high speeds is inherently dangerous. 

Whether Vettel’s rejoining was unsafe or not is a subjective question. My opinion is that Hamilton was not exposed to any greater unsafety during that move than normal dicing where you have to adjust your speed and road position depending on the actions of others.

Garthy

Dicing within the rules though.

Heartfeltdawn

Yes please. 

https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/aston-martin-valkyrie-hypercar-programme/4474070/

sweepy

The Flooring the throttle quote came from the Drivetribe group where the throttle telemetry was shown alongside the steering angle, iirc Rosberg and Palmer made a similar comment, anyway, roll on France

Modellista

Hamilton’s dominance is total. He can get tyres to last forever. Got fastest lap for fun at the end when Bottas was haemorrhaging time. Vettel on brand new tyres was only fractionally quicker. Surely the championship is in the bag now.  

Shame for Norris with Ricciardo spoiling his race at the end, but a strong showing and surely a glittering career ahead. Welcome back McLaren, we’ve missed you.  

Shit track though. 

prowla

Modellista said:

Hamilton’s dominance is total. He can get tyres to last forever. Got fastest lap for fun at the end when Bottas was haemorrhaging time. Vettel on brand new tyres was only fractionally quicker. Surely the championship is in the bag now.  

Shame for Norris with Ricciardo spoiling his race at the end, but a strong showing and surely a glittering career ahead. Welcome back McLaren, we’ve missed you.  

Shit track though. 

Ricciardo came back onto the track unsafely and forced Norris off = 5 second penalty.

These stewards are so inconsistent!

It was good seeing McLaren up there.

And yes - rubbish track with loads of pretend track limits.

stickyfiddle

Ricciardo got 2 penalties for 2 fuckups caused by one move. And we didn't even see it on the live feed! 

The only interesting bit of an extremely dull race. 

Very glad to see McLaren finally looking good again though. Zak's changes are finally bearing fruit, which is great to see.