The F1 thread

Brio

… and thinking about how to whine about how the new 'in action' checking of rear wing flex is only there to punish them because of Toto moaning at the FIA.

chillidoggy

roundthebend said:

Bottas to Red Bull?

You should put that in the Friday Humour thread!

sinbaadi

I'm not surprised Max is looking better than Perez, he's generally seemed to be quite strong.  
Anyone saying Hamilton is the greatest ever must be mega impressed when Bottas beats him, even if it's just the odd qualifying or race.  Surely that makes him worthy of another good drive somewhere if Mercedes drop him?  

I mean, to beat the best ever on a level playing field, even just once or twice, you'd have to be in the top ten best ever, right? 

Cols

So if Hamilton is the GOAT, and Rosberg has been his closest teammate, does that mean Nico is the SGOAT?

GOAT sounds weird, but SGOAT sounds vaguely smutty.

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

Cols said:

So if Hamilton is the GOAT, and Rosberg has been his closest teammate, does that mean Nico is the SGOAT?

GOAT sounds weird, but SGOAT sounds vaguely smutty.

You could argue that Jenson Button was just as close (if not closer) than Rosberg over their time as teammates. In their three seasons combined, Button actually outscored Hamilton 672 to 657, albeit only finished the season ahead of Hamilton on one of those three seasons.

I guess the fact that the McLarens weren't competitive at the front of the grid means that era gets talked about less than the Hamilton-Rosberg era at Merc.

TimmyO

Cols said:

chillidoggy said:

I can’t see Horner laying awake at night because of that.

I think the only things which keep Horner awake at night are Ginger Spice and the conditions of Max’s break clause.

Proper lol 

Fretwired

Cols said:

So if Hamilton is the GOAT, and Rosberg has been his closest teammate, does that mean Nico is the SGOAT?

GOAT sounds weird, but SGOAT sounds vaguely smutty.

Although that year Hamilton had loads of bad luck .. Bottas rammed him off the track in Bahrain and got a penalty .. his gearbox packed up, his engine caught fire ... so I'd say LGOAT for Rosberg .. :-)

Cols

Fretwired said:

Cols said:

So if Hamilton is the GOAT, and Rosberg has been his closest teammate, does that mean Nico is the SGOAT?

GOAT sounds weird, but SGOAT sounds vaguely smutty.

Although that year Hamilton had loads of bad luck .. Bottas rammed him off the track in Bahrain and got a penalty .. his gearbox packed up, his engine caught fire ... so I'd say LGOAT for Rosberg .. :-)

One could also argue that Rosberg really should have won in 2014, and was on course to do so until the wind was rather publicly taken out of his sails following the Spa incident.

In the end, Hamilton had a perfect run to the end of the season and took the DWC that year.  Swings and roundabouts.

Dodge

Brio said:

… and thinking about how to whine about how the new 'in action' checking of rear wing flex is only there to punish them because of Toto moaning at the FIA.

Good vdeo on the bendy RB wing: 

stickyfiddle

Dodge said:

Brio said:

… and thinking about how to whine about how the new 'in action' checking of rear wing flex is only there to punish them because of Toto moaning at the FIA.

Good vdeo on the bendy RB wing: 

Pretty conclusive, but if it passes the e standard tests on any given weekend then it’s legal to race, even if it’s outside the spirit of the regs. No different from their clever flexi front wings a few years back. 

Simonh

Cols said:

So if Hamilton is the GOAT, and Rosberg has been his closest teammate, does that mean Nico is the SGOAT?

GOAT sounds weird, but SGOAT sounds vaguely smutty.

Hamilton is only consider to be as good as he because of the level of consistency and performance over an extended time period, Rosberg couldn't manage that (and tbh I am fairly convinced that his DWC was a bit of a gift anyway)

Cols

Dodge said:

Brio said:

… and thinking about how to whine about how the new 'in action' checking of rear wing flex is only there to punish them because of Toto moaning at the FIA.

Good vdeo on the bendy RB wing: 

This sort of thing pisses me off.  

The regs are written as they are, and a team have found a way to get a performance advantage while remaining compliant.

Rather than admire the innovative thinking and set to work seeing how they could apply it themselves, the other teams just reach for the lawyers to get it banned.

Not just Merc/RB; all teams do this, going back decades.

rlw

Cols said:

Dodge said:

Brio said:

… and thinking about how to whine about how the new 'in action' checking of rear wing flex is only there to punish them because of Toto moaning at the FIA.

Good vdeo on the bendy RB wing: 

This sort of thing pisses me off.  

The regs are written as they are, and a team have found a way to get a performance advantage while remaining compliant.

Rather than admire the innovative thinking and set to work seeing how they could apply it themselves, the other teams just reach for the lawyers to get it banned.

Not just Merc/RB; all teams do this, going back decades.

Its the spirit of the rules, not the rules themselves, which apply here and they say no flexing, although of course they don't actually say that at all.  But they still apply.

goldtop

Aren't there specific rules about having no active aerodynamics? IIRC that was interpreted in the past as not allowing some front wing flexibility ... I wonder which team it was back then?

Some text: Article 3.8 of the Technical Regulations requires all components influencing the car’s aerodynamic performance to be “rigidly secured to the entirely sprung part of the car”, and to “remain immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car”.

If RB lose 0.3s a lap from now on, the season's over. Again.

Cols

Then it comes down to a question of how to assure components are “rigidly secure” and “immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car“.  That’s where the tests come in.  Parts flex; you just have to look at slow motion footage of cars bouncing over kerbs, front wings flapping like mad, to see that.  The tests set out how much flexion is tolerable.

The job of the car designer is to produce the fastest possible car which, when tested according to the regulations, will be legal to race.  Meeting the spirit of the regulations is of no interest to them… until someone else comes up with a clever trick that they can’t easily copy.

stickyfiddle

Exactly. The spirit of the rule is that everything should be rigid if not part of the suspension system. But the reality is that's literally impossible, so you have to have a tolerance, and a way of measuring that the car is built within that tolerance. 

Fretwired

Cols said:

This sort of thing pisses me off.  

The regs are written as they are, and a team have found a way to get a performance advantage while remaining compliant.

Rather than admire the innovative thinking and set to work seeing how they could apply it themselves, the other teams just reach for the lawyers to get it banned.

Not just Merc/RB; all teams do this, going back decades.

But part of the reason teams raise issues like this is to clarify the rules - if it's illegal Red Bull will have to stop using a flexi-wing. If it's legal then everyone can do it.

Cols

Well, those are the standard weasel words - “We’re simply seeking clarification…”.  Most recently by Red Bull, concerning Ferrari’s awesome 2019 engine.

TimmyO

You can pass the tests and still be illegal - you just be unlikely to be excluded because the appeal would be messy as fuck. 

Isn't there some wording about ... must not seek to exploit/seek to gain an advantage ... ? 

I don't agree that it should be expected that teams aim to breach regs but just not get caught / not fail the test. This isn't about a clever interpretation (like DAS/knee-duct-blockijg/double diffusers/6 wheels/pneumatic skirts/extended.floors of the past) - it's a deliberate attempt to do something without being caught for doing it 

Simonh

If you are not cheating you are not racing...