The F1 thread

TimmyO

I think Max will win (although I'd prefer LH to get #8) 

I think @Fretwired 's analysis is bunkum - the Red Bull was a faster car in free air than the Merc in free air. 

chillidoggy

It was all about the start. Had Max aced it, he'd have had it in the bag instead of which he cocked it up, Hamster got the drop on him. That said, it was flawless drives afterwards by both Max and Hamster.

Alonso - still entertaining to watch!

Emiel

Once Hamilton got within 2 seconds of Verstappen, he couldn't quite follow in the twisty second sector due to dirty air so he stayed outside DRS range. You really need a big (tire) advantage to cover that up, and Hamilton (surprisingly) didn't have it at the end.  It will be interesting to see if the new 2022 cars are really able to follow each other better, as the teams are now saying that they will be almost as fast as this year.

Nitefly

Fred vs Kimi was good fun!  

Looking on the bright side for Hamilton, at least he got the extra point for fastest lap.

Simonh

what is alonso playing at with his antics recently? trying to get all track limits enforced at all times perhaps?

stickyfiddle

Simonh said:

what is alonso playing at with his antics recently? trying to get all track limits enforced at all times perhaps?

Trying to get maximum clarity in rules for a level playing field in case he has a fast car next year

thumpingrug

Just seen this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59125551

sprint format may become the standard format for all races.  Cant say its impressed me this year.

Fretwired

TimmyO said:

I think Max will win (although I'd prefer LH to get #8) 

I think @Fretwired 's analysis is bunkum - the Red Bull was a faster car in free air than the Merc in free air. 

Why are you so rude?

You said:

The Red Bull was a faster car in free air than the Merc in free air.

Except in FP1. Both cars are closely matched. Besides, the Red Bull has been faster in the past but has been harder on its tyres which allowed Hamilton to reel in Verstappen and overtake him.  I said Verstappen has matured - he looked after his tyres and didn't do his usual rant and ragged race routine. The result is he won and was never under pressure. Hamilton never looked like he could overtake him.

Where did I state I thought the Merc was the faster car? I didn't. I clearly said 'Mercedes don't have a performance advantage' so the only viable strategy was to take advantage of the undercut and keep track position and hope Hamilton could defend. And that's what many commentators have said (hindsight is wonderful).

The moment Red Bull undercut Mercedes the race was over. Hamilton must be worried - it looks like he'll need another engine so I'd say advantage Red Bull and Max Verstappen.

chillidoggy

thumpingrug said:

Just seen this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59125551

sprint format may become the standard format for all races.  Cant say its impressed me this year.

I confess I found the format confusing, but then I’m an old fart. It smacks of Liberty Media wanting to make it more attractive to American punters, and they’re the ones calling the shots.

stickyfiddle

They want to make it more attractive to those paying the bills - that's the circuits who want to sell tickets, and the TV networks who want to get viewers. FWIW I don't think Brawn is saying they necessarily want that, but just that they haven't ruled it out yet. 

I can 100% understand from a short-term financial perspective that a sprint format is better.  But I don't like it. 

boogieman

I thought the sprint idea was crap, it was like a race but suddenly cut short. F1 for people with short attention spans. 

DesVegas

You should tell them stickyfiddle 

stickyfiddle

DesVegas said:

You should tell them stickyfiddle 

I have in every survey offered! 

fretmeister

I gather that Brawn has admitted giving pole to the winner of the sprint race was a bad idea and the fans didn't like it.

So it seems the sprint race is going to be a standalone event on a GP weekend, but they don't know how to set the grids for it yet.

I would assume that the sprint adds quite a lot of wear onto the 'penalty replacement parts' but there's no talk of increasing the number of engines / gear boxes etc.

So far I'm not a fan of the sprint races. Without pitstops or strategy issues they are more one-sided than a regular GP and basically barring accidents / failures only Max and Lewis are going to win them. Even if it's levelled out a bit with the new cars next year it won't be long before the likes of Newey restore their advantage.

dazzajl

I'm not sure how to make it work but I think if there's going to be a separate event on Saturday to add to the action over a weekend, it should a reverse grid. Perhaps the reverse of Qually and the main grid? Maybe points awarded in order of places gained??

stickyfiddle

fretmeister said:

So far I'm not a fan of the sprint races. Without pitstops or strategy issues they are more one-sided than a regular GP and basically barring accidents / failures only Max and Lewis are going to win them. Even if it's levelled out a bit with the new cars next year it won't be long before the likes of Newey restore their advantage.

Thing is, if you have quali first and start them in that order, then the fastest car will always be at the front, and you get no overtaking. 

Let's be honest, most of the overtaking in F1 comes either from the midfield, or from where a leader is out of place, either due to pitstops or penalties or the occasional spin or whatever. If you remove pitstops from that you get minimal chance of overtaking because the risk is way bigger than the reward. The alternative is to give a lot more points for the sprint to make going for a pass "worth it" but then you devalue the main race. 

If they want more F1 action without reversing grids at some point I'd suggest a spec race on certain weekends where the drivers all drive the same car - maybe a grid of Merc/AM safety cars or whatever. That'd be way more interesting imo

TimmyO

Fretwired said:

TimmyO said:

I think Max will win (although I'd prefer LH to get #8) 

I think @Fretwired 's analysis is bunkum - the Red Bull was a faster car in free air than the Merc in free air. 

Why are you so rude?

You said:

The Red Bull was a faster car in free air than the Merc in free air.

Except in FP1. Both cars are closely matched. Besides, the Red Bull has been faster in the past but has been harder on its tyres which allowed Hamilton to reel in Verstappen and overtake him.  I said Verstappen has matured - he looked after his tyres and didn't do his usual rant and ragged race routine. The result is he won and was never under pressure. Hamilton never looked like he could overtake him.

Where did I state I thought the Merc was the faster car? I didn't. I clearly said 'Mercedes don't have a performance advantage' so the only viable strategy was to take advantage of the undercut and keep track position and hope Hamilton could defend. And that's what many commentators have said (hindsight is wonderful).

The moment Red Bull undercut Mercedes the race was over. Hamilton must be worried - it looks like he'll need another engine so I'd say advantage Red Bull and Max Verstappen.

Am I? I just completely disagree with your take on it - I guess I could have said those words instead, but I didn’t <shrug> 

Relative pace in FP1 isn’t relevant to the race and decisions in it - not sure why that’s relevant. 

IMO it’s over complicating things to talk about what should or shouldn’t have been done on strategy when the RB was simply faster in clear air on the day. And as to the undercut - yes. To avoid it would mean sacrificing track position - that’s always the leaders curse. We’ve had this discussion before. 

Simonh

If the red bull was faster it would have driven away from lewis and it wasn't able to do that. It was clearly fast enough to keep lewis behind but that does not make it faster overall as you need to work harder when you are behind.

chillidoggy

Bring back re-fueling.

boogieman

dazzajl said:

I'm not sure how to make it work but I think if there's going to be a separate event on Saturday to add to the action over a weekend, it should a reverse grid. Perhaps the reverse of Qually and the main grid? Maybe points awarded in order of places gained??

God can you imagine the chaos of everyone overtaking Mazepin? It’d be carnage. Great idea, bring it on!