The F1 thread

TimmyO

TimmyO said:

Fretwired said:

TimmyO said:

I think Max will win (although I'd prefer LH to get #8) 

I think @Fretwired 's analysis is bunkum - the Red Bull was a faster car in free air than the Merc in free air. 

Why are you so rude?

You said:

The Red Bull was a faster car in free air than the Merc in free air.

Except in FP1. Both cars are closely matched. Besides, the Red Bull has been faster in the past but has been harder on its tyres which allowed Hamilton to reel in Verstappen and overtake him.  I said Verstappen has matured - he looked after his tyres and didn't do his usual rant and ragged race routine. The result is he won and was never under pressure. Hamilton never looked like he could overtake him.

Where did I state I thought the Merc was the faster car? I didn't. I clearly said 'Mercedes don't have a performance advantage' so the only viable strategy was to take advantage of the undercut and keep track position and hope Hamilton could defend. And that's what many commentators have said (hindsight is wonderful).

The moment Red Bull undercut Mercedes the race was over. Hamilton must be worried - it looks like he'll need another engine so I'd say advantage Red Bull and Max Verstappen.

Am I? I just completely disagree with your take on it - I guess I could have said those words instead, but I didn’t <shrug> 

Relative pace in FP1 isn’t relevant to the race and decisions in it - not sure why that’s relevant. 

IMO it’s over complicating things to talk about what should or shouldn’t have been done on strategy when the RB was simply faster in clear air on the day. And as to the undercut - yes. To avoid it would mean sacrificing track position - that’s always the leaders curse. We’ve had this discussion before. 

@Fretwired - erm I also missed the opportunity there to say sorry for being/seeming rude - which was rude of me - sorry 

stickyfiddle

chillidoggy said:

Bring back re-fueling.

Nah, just means very little jeopardy from slow pitstops and all overtaking happens via pit strategy

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

Five races to go. So, anyone confident to stick their neck on the line and confidently say which way it's gonna go?

Anyone here as confident as this guy...

Cols

boogieman said:

dazzajl said:

I'm not sure how to make it work but I think if there's going to be a separate event on Saturday to add to the action over a weekend, it should a reverse grid. Perhaps the reverse of Qually and the main grid? Maybe points awarded in order of places gained??

God can you imagine the chaos of everyone overtaking Mazepin? It’d be carnage. Great idea, bring it on! 

He can’t take the entire field out.

OR CAN HE?

fretmeister

Cols said:

boogieman said:

dazzajl said:

I'm not sure how to make it work but I think if there's going to be a separate event on Saturday to add to the action over a weekend, it should a reverse grid. Perhaps the reverse of Qually and the main grid? Maybe points awarded in order of places gained??

God can you imagine the chaos of everyone overtaking Mazepin? It’d be carnage. Great idea, bring it on! 

He can’t take the entire field out.

OR CAN HE?

TimmyO

Dontgiveupyourdayjob said:

Five races to go. So, anyone confident to stick their neck on the line and confidently say which way it's gonna go?

Anyone here as confident as this guy...

I think Max will win the championship - but I’d rather LH moved the bar to 8 . But yeah, Max 

stickyfiddle

Yeah, I'd love to see Lewis get #8, but I agree Max is looking likely to nick it this season. I would dearly love for Lewis to get a title under the new regs - titles in 3 separate technical eras would help solidify the legend.

sinbaadi

I like the Sprint races.  I know it's not one for the purists, but the first laps of any race are typically the most entertaining so it's like having two shots at it.

chillidoggy

stickyfiddle said:

Yeah, I'd love to see Lewis get #8, but I agree Max is looking likely to nick it this season. I would dearly love for Lewis to get a title under the new regs - titles in 3 separate technical eras would help solidify the legend.

Steady on there Sticky, did the more observant amongst us spot an almost grudging acceptance that Max might be a half-decent driver?

Fretwired

TimmyO said:

@Fretwired - erm I also missed the opportunity there to say sorry for being/seeming rude - which was rude of me - sorry 

That's OK. I don't mind people disagreeing with me if they simply put their case.

I agree with you - the Red Bull car was faster which is why I don't understand why Mercedes didn't go for the undercut. They may have still lost the race but then Ham is good at defending - for me it was the only strategy that stood a chance of being successful. The moment Red Bull went for the undercut they won the race. Hamilton was never going to overtake Max.

IMHO the biggest difference this year is Max. In this race, he managed his pace and his tyres and beat Hamilton with ease - he's matured as a driver. I think Max will win the championship this year and he'll deserve it.

Cols

Not a fan of the idea of sprint qualifying; IMHO it’s a gimmick which devalues the actual qualifying session.

On the plus side, it does add an element of unpredictability, which makes for better entertainment.  For me the worst period in F1 was the dominant Schumacher-Ferrari years, where you knew going into the race weekend that, all things being equal, Schumi was going to stroll away with the race win.  Impressive, but predictable.

If I could pick one thing to change in F1 it would be to ban any pit-car communication beyond the pit boards, direct line from the race director and a button on the wheel to tell the pits you’re coming in.  Currently they’re all coached round by a legion of engineers to maintain the optimum pace and strategy to maximise their performance.  Take that away, and once the visor goes down each driver has only their wits and the car under them.

stickyfiddle

chillidoggy said:

stickyfiddle said:

Yeah, I'd love to see Lewis get #8, but I agree Max is looking likely to nick it this season. I would dearly love for Lewis to get a title under the new regs - titles in 3 separate technical eras would help solidify the legend.

Steady on there Sticky, did the more observant amongst us spot an almost grudging acceptance that Max might be a half-decent driver?

:P 

He's clearly an extremely quick driver - I don't think I've ever disputed that. It's just that he's also a bit of a dickhead

stickyfiddle

Cols said:

If I could pick one thing to change in F1 it would be to ban any pit-car communication beyond the pit boards, direct line from the race director and a button on the wheel to tell the pits you’re coming in.  Currently they’re all coached round by a legion of engineers to maintain the optimum pace and strategy to maximise their performance.  Take that away, and once the visor goes down each driver has only their wits and the car under them.

I'd go further - I'd ban the "home base race control" with legions of guys on supercomputers working out every possible iteration of strategy so no human has to use their intuition. It's mega impressive, but surely it's one of those things where once everyone has it there's no advantage so removing it saves cost and should improve the racing

I'd be happy to leave the radio open so the driver can talk but the pitlane can't answer. Then we'd still get the amusing rants and celebrations

Simonh

even with all the computers team regularly get the strategy spectacularly wrong! the cars are too complex these days to drive without the pit wall support, take away the car complexity and it isn't f1 anymore.

I agree though I would prefer to see less race management and more driver vs driver head to head.

boogieman

stickyfiddle said:

Cols said:

If I could pick one thing to change in F1 it would be to ban any pit-car communication beyond the pit boards, direct line from the race director and a button on the wheel to tell the pits you’re coming in.  Currently they’re all coached round by a legion of engineers to maintain the optimum pace and strategy to maximise their performance.  Take that away, and once the visor goes down each driver has only their wits and the car under them.

I'd go further - I'd ban the "home base race control" with legions of guys on supercomputers working out every possible iteration of strategy so no human has to use their intuition. It's mega impressive, but surely it's one of those things where once everyone has it there's no advantage so removing it saves cost and should improve the racing

I'd be happy to leave the radio open so the driver can talk but the pitlane can't answer. Then we'd still get the amusing rants and celebrations

They might have a legion of experts with supercomputers working out every possibility but somehow Merc still get it wrong, on a regular basis. I’ve lost count of the number of times over the last few seasons that I’ve watched a race and thought WTF are you doing? Get him in!! (I know Lewis  overrides the team decisions sometimes, but I think that’s because he doesn’t trust the strategists either).  

stickyfiddle

boogieman said:

stickyfiddle said:

Cols said:

If I could pick one thing to change in F1 it would be to ban any pit-car communication beyond the pit boards, direct line from the race director and a button on the wheel to tell the pits you’re coming in.  Currently they’re all coached round by a legion of engineers to maintain the optimum pace and strategy to maximise their performance.  Take that away, and once the visor goes down each driver has only their wits and the car under them.

I'd go further - I'd ban the "home base race control" with legions of guys on supercomputers working out every possible iteration of strategy so no human has to use their intuition. It's mega impressive, but surely it's one of those things where once everyone has it there's no advantage so removing it saves cost and should improve the racing

I'd be happy to leave the radio open so the driver can talk but the pitlane can't answer. Then we'd still get the amusing rants and celebrations

They might have a legion of experts with supercomputers working out every possibility but somehow Merc still get it wrong, on a regular basis. I’ve lost count of the number of times over the last few seasons that I’ve watched a race and thought WTF are you doing? Get him in!! (I know Lewis  overrides the team decisions sometimes, but I think that’s because he doesn’t trust the strategists either).  

Of course, but removing the supercomputers would only mean that when someone wins on strategy it’s because the humans involved did better than the other humans. 

chillidoggy

stickyfiddle said:

chillidoggy said:

stickyfiddle said:

Yeah, I'd love to see Lewis get #8, but I agree Max is looking likely to nick it this season. I would dearly love for Lewis to get a title under the new regs - titles in 3 separate technical eras would help solidify the legend.

Steady on there Sticky, did the more observant amongst us spot an almost grudging acceptance that Max might be a half-decent driver?

:P 

He's clearly an extremely quick driver - I don't think I've ever disputed that. It's just that he's also a bit of a dickhead

 A charge that might also be levelled at a number of F1 drivers, both past and present! 

dazzajl

chillidoggy said:

stickyfiddle said:

chillidoggy said:

stickyfiddle said:

Yeah, I'd love to see Lewis get #8, but I agree Max is looking likely to nick it this season. I would dearly love for Lewis to get a title under the new regs - titles in 3 separate technical eras would help solidify the legend.

Steady on there Sticky, did the more observant amongst us spot an almost grudging acceptance that Max might be a half-decent driver?

:P 

He's clearly an extremely quick driver - I don't think I've ever disputed that. It's just that he's also a bit of a dickhead

 A charge that might also be levelled at a number of F1 drivers, both past and present! 

It’s a description I think fitted Lewis well for a long time. It’s taken quite a long time for him to grow into himself so maybe Max will eventually too?

Right now I’d rather see Lewis win this year but it looks like Max will be a deserving champ. And a bit of a dickhead. 

chillidoggy

I’d rather see Max win this year because it would demonstrate that the Hamster is not unbeatable. And I’m relishing the thought of Hamster being challenged by Russell, too. I just hope Merc lets the two of them battle it out on track, and Max will be right in the mix too, which should make for some exciting racing for next year.

fretmeister

I still think Lewis is a bit of a dick but he has improved.

I'd love to see him get No8, for 2 reasons.

1: He is truly phenomenal. My favourite driver will forever be Senna and I've been following the sport since 1980 and I could not honestly say that in equal machinery Senna would beat LH. I never thought Senna's pole record would ever be beaten, and MSC just got past it - but then for LH to crush that with 100 is amazing. I also never thought MSC's 7 titles would be passed in my lifetime and for me elite sport is always about taking it further, just moving the realms of the possible onwards a little bit is amazing.

2: I would hugely enjoy the gammon based meltdowns when they realise that no matter how much they complain or call him "Shamilton" until someone gets 9 and more than 100 poles he will be viewed as the greatest ever.


I suspect Max will win this year, but the year after Nico won LH was even more impressive (ok, with Bottas but still). It's like losing one fired him up again.

And if Max does only win one he will take his place in history next to Alan Jones, Denny Hulme, and the other 1 hit wonders...