The F1 thread

sweepy

Maybe resurrect the Auto-Union name ?

Fretwired

sweepy said:

Maybe resurrect the Auto-Union name ?

Audi could do although I think it is more likely they'd pick Porsche or Audi as they will want to sell road cars. VW is a non-starter unless they want social media memes about dodgy diesel cars .. :-)

Read below - looks like Red Bull could use Porsche brand with a different engines and McLaren would be Audi.

Just published in Autocar:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-finance-and-corporate/audi-buys-mclaren-group-secure-formula-1-entry?fbclid=IwAR2iw8QXEQoPls3fTVl5iVCgV9iniXRZN718syLVOAUcCd35M7oUVeLOd7Y

stickyfiddle

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

I kinda hope Audi haven't bought McLaren, though I'm in favour of job security for everyone who works there. 

Between this (if true) and the Andretti/Sauber thing It does largely suggest that we'll never get a new team under the current structure as buying an existing one via a heavily-leveraged structure is always going to be much muc better value.

I'd prefer McLaren to be owned by a car manufacturer rather than a bunch of Saudi investors. Could be good news for the road cars as well - access to VW Group technology and money.

Starting a team from scratch would be hard these days. Mclaren is a well-run team with experienced employees and an excellent UK-based factory.  I wonder what brand name they will use? Audi or Porsche?

I wonder how this will affect Red Bull? Would they want Audi engines if they are only a customer? And two large German car manufacturers will give Horner sleepless nights.

I don’t think there's any suggestion they might do away with the McLaren F1 team brand. That would be madness, surely? 

Much better to do a Porsche (yay!) or Audi (meh!) engine and put it in a McLaren car?

dazzajl

McLaren have just said it’s all bollocks, the story should be removed and that there has been no change in ownership of the McLaren Group.

Which in today’s world, might well be a confirmation???

Fretwired

stickyfiddle said:

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

I kinda hope Audi haven't bought McLaren, though I'm in favour of job security for everyone who works there. 

Between this (if true) and the Andretti/Sauber thing It does largely suggest that we'll never get a new team under the current structure as buying an existing one via a heavily-leveraged structure is always going to be much muc better value.

I'd prefer McLaren to be owned by a car manufacturer rather than a bunch of Saudi investors. Could be good news for the road cars as well - access to VW Group technology and money.

Starting a team from scratch would be hard these days. Mclaren is a well-run team with experienced employees and an excellent UK-based factory.  I wonder what brand name they will use? Audi or Porsche?

I wonder how this will affect Red Bull? Would they want Audi engines if they are only a customer? And two large German car manufacturers will give Horner sleepless nights.

I don’t think Theresa any suggestion they might do away with the McLaren F1 team brand. That would be madness, surely? 

Much better to do a Porsche (yay!) or Audi (meh!) engine and put it in a McLaren car?

Audi would be mad to remove the McLaren name - it has a history that will attract sponsors. There's also the road car arm of the business which depends on McLaren being a brand in F1.

There's no smoke without fire ...

sweepy

Still no in car footage from Max  pushing Lewis wide in Sao Paolo,  sounding increasingly fishy tbh 

Fretwired

Autocar changes its tune ...

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-finance-and-corporate/mclaren-group-denies-being-bought-audi

:-) :-)

goldtop

sweepy said:

Still no in car footage from Max  pushing Lewis wide in Sao Paolo,  sounding increasingly fishy tbh 

Max explains: it's because his tyres were worn that he couldn't keep his line through that corner.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/verstappen-worn-tyres-triggered-turn-4-wash-out-with-hamilton/6784425/

These would be his 7-lap-old hard compound tyres, right?

Cols

goldtop said:

sweepy said:

Still no in car footage from Max  pushing Lewis wide in Sao Paolo,  sounding increasingly fishy tbh 

Max explains: it's because his tyres were worn that he couldn't keep his line through that corner.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/verstappen-worn-tyres-triggered-turn-4-wash-out-with-hamilton/6784425/

These would be his 7-lap-old hard compound tyres, right?

Funny that he managed to keep his line through that corner for the other 70 laps.

Reverend

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

Interesting suggestions on Ham’s new engine from twitter. Essentially because they know it only has to do 2,500km (instead of the usual 7,000) they’re razzing the shit out of it with the management and turbo pressure. 

Of course the cost was a 5-place penalty for yesterday’s race that Lewis still won easily. If true then RB don’t stand a chance

https://mobile.twitter.com/fiagirly/status/1459880620184772620

Interesting. I doubt it is just the engine though - RB and Horner are fixated with the new Mercedes rear wing.  According to Wolff the rear wing on Lewis Hamilton's Mercedes failed a post-qualifying inspection by just 0.2 of a millimetre.

that is a tiny difference. Could the heat be enough to expand by that much?

TimmyO

Reverend said:

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

Interesting suggestions on Ham’s new engine from twitter. Essentially because they know it only has to do 2,500km (instead of the usual 7,000) they’re razzing the shit out of it with the management and turbo pressure. 

Of course the cost was a 5-place penalty for yesterday’s race that Lewis still won easily. If true then RB don’t stand a chance

https://mobile.twitter.com/fiagirly/status/1459880620184772620

Interesting. I doubt it is just the engine though - RB and Horner are fixated with the new Mercedes rear wing.  According to Wolff the rear wing on Lewis Hamilton's Mercedes failed a post-qualifying inspection by just 0.2 of a millimetre.

that is a tiny difference. Could the heat be enough to expand by that much?

I think it's been pretty well covered (not least in the stewards statement) that that discrepancy was neither deliberate, by design, or caused an advantage - but it's still a failure against the technical directive of how that element is to be policed so a fair cop. 

RB's gripe about the rear wing was expecting it to fail for flexing rearwards under load - which it didn't. 

TimmyO

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

I kinda hope Audi haven't bought McLaren, though I'm in favour of job security for everyone who works there. 

Between this (if true) and the Andretti/Sauber thing It does largely suggest that we'll never get a new team under the current structure as buying an existing one via a heavily-leveraged structure is always going to be much muc better value.

I'd prefer McLaren to be owned by a car manufacturer rather than a bunch of Saudi investors. Could be good news for the road cars as well - access to VW Group technology and money.

Starting a team from scratch would be hard these days. Mclaren is a well-run team with experienced employees and an excellent UK-based factory.  I wonder what brand name they will use? Audi or Porsche?

I wonder how this will affect Red Bull? Would they want Audi engines if they are only a customer? And two large German car manufacturers will give Horner sleepless nights.

I don’t think Theresa any suggestion they might do away with the McLaren F1 team brand. That would be madness, surely? 

Much better to do a Porsche (yay!) or Audi (meh!) engine and put it in a McLaren car?

Audi would be mad to remove the McLaren name - it has a history that will attract sponsors. There's also the road car arm of the business which depends on McLaren being a brand in F1.

Agree. Didn't Fiat own most of Ferrari at one point? Similarly they'd have been nuts to change it to Fiat F1. 

menamestom

Teetonetal said:

menamestom said:

Great race, really good weekend.  I'm on and off with F1 but there has been some great races this season.  Not to tempt irony but hopefully next seasons changes to make it more exciting don't reverse the current trend.  

Anyway on to the next G.P.

I wonder if Red Bull will be forced into an engine change themselves, they said before the Brazil race it wasn't an option they were considering but following what Hamilton achieved yesterday and his surge in pace, surely they are in a difficult position now? MV's engine was changed in Russia so it's 5 GP old, can it be competitive for its 6th 7th and 8th ?  I know there are many other factors but the final circuits don't favour either car heavily (so I read, although perhaps Saudi Arabia favours the lower drag Mercedes), so could this engine change by Mercedes be the difference?

Should they take the hit and use the 14 point buffer to have a 2 GP showdown, or protect the points and give the engine the chance to complete 8 GP's?  I guess this depends on data they will be looking at now, but it must be concerning looking in the rear view mirror at a driver that's just completed the race of his life in a car with a new engine.  

I wonder what the risk is, of Max's RB engine failing in one of the last races? 

I think they are design for at least 7-8 races and they seem reliable, so should last the rest of the season. I guess the main issue is wear, reduced performance and how much they can push the engine at 8 races.  Perhaps they will take the hit of a new one depending on qualifying at the next race.

DesVegas

Have you noticed there have not been that many dnf's due to engine or other mechanical failure this season ?

Cols

Curiously, onboard incident footage from the Maxmobile is still unavailable…

Fretwired

Cols said:

Curiously, onboard incident footage from the Maxmobile is still unavailable…

Some analysis:

Cols

Fretwired said:

Cols said:

Curiously, onboard incident footage from the Maxmobile is still unavailable…

Some analysis:

Oh yeah, the dogs in the street know it was a deliberate shove.  The only way Max could’ve made it more obvious would have been to actually steer right.

Regardless of the missing footage, I don’t think Merc will get anywhere with an appeal.  The stewards didn’t even deem it worthy of investigation, so there’s no decision to appeal.

It’s another curious example of a phenomenon which has existed since Max entered F1; the authorities give him considerably more latitude than any other driver for what’s considered acceptable driving behaviour.

Simonh

I would be surprised if the footage ever becomes available that we see Max steering to the right, I expect he just let off the brakes enough to run it out and being surprised to not find lewis there took himself off as wide as he did. I think the braking telemetry will be much more interesting than the steering angle.

the problem the FIA now have is that in taking so long to produce this footage and not investigating at the time is that they have created a level of hype that now won't go away and whatever they do is going to draw anger from the fans.

If max had managed to keep it on track I would have said fair enough but he went sooooo far off there was never any attempt to actually make the corner without crashing into lewis or keeping him behind.

stickyfiddle

Cols said:

Fretwired said:

Cols said:

Curiously, onboard incident footage from the Maxmobile is still unavailable…

Some analysis:

Oh yeah, the dogs in the street know it was a deliberate shove.  The only way Max could’ve made it more obvious would have been to actually steer right.

Regardless of the missing footage, I don’t think Merc will get anywhere with an appeal.  The stewards didn’t even deem it worthy of investigation, so there’s no decision to appeal.

It’s another curious example of a phenomenon which has existed since Max entered F1; the authorities give him considerably more latitude than any other driver for what’s considered acceptable driving behaviour.

Yep this. 

This move was extremely similar to the silverstone copse move but with the roles reversed, and this time Lewis had the option to avoid the accident. If it had been guys like Tsunoda and Giovanazzi there's no way it wouldn't have been investigated

Boromedic

@Cols as ever is on the money....